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Subject: John Howe Guest Box - enchantment cards (are they good?) rss

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Gutripper
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Hi I was wondering about the enchantment cards that come with the John Howe Guest Box - are they good/fun and very worthwhile having?

I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the models, but don't know if they are fun to have due to some special skill combinations? The woman with the goat is different but the two viking dudes and the levitating woman sculpts just look a bit strange to me.

What's the general opinion on this boxed set?
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I am curious as well. I keep shaking my head at myself every time I look up this set to see if it's on Amazon yet (I don't know that it will be, but still).

Anyway, I shake my head because I find myself mostly wanting it for the extra card options. However, the Hell Goat is just another means of gaining the shove skill, so not really that necessary? The Dragon Aura, on the other hand, could be an interesting Armor option for Spellacasters with the Spellbook Skill, as they free up their armor slot... Though I don't know how powerful that Aura is--but I'd like to.

I don't care at all about the minis as I have way more than enough Heroes as it is.

So, at the end of the day, I can always make the cards myself.

Regardless, I too would be interested in hearing the thoughts of anyone who has the box.

Great topic.
 
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Paul H
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When we have drawn the enchantments, we found that they were useful, but not critical to our success.

We use the Shove enchant a lot when we have it. It's a handy way to keep people alive or set up Earthquake or Dragon's Bile attacks.

Dragon Aura is far less useful. It's not bad as it's a 50% chance to avoid being wounded, but by comparison Shove effectively gives someone 100% avoidance.
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Eric Harman
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They're among my least favorite enchantments.
The shove enchantment is completely worse than repulse. And the other is armor that takes an action to have available.
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Jack Francisco
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It's funny. Maybe because I started playing D&D before the era of Min/Maxing, where you played with the characteristic rolls you got and having flawed imperfect characters was part of the fun, but I don't mind having the occasional subpar item or skill. There used to be a running joke in our D&D group regarding the constant appearance of +1 maces.

Every team I've ever been a part of has someone who needs to be carried a little because of a particular shortcoming in a particular area. Winning DESPITE these shortcomings is part of the fun!
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Cooperton wrote:
The shove enchantment is completely worse than repulse. And the other is armor that takes an action to have available.


That is... correct, but not at all relevant for determining if those are good cards to have in a deck. You realize you do not always have the others?
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Eric Harman
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I fail to see how discussing the relative power and usefulness of enchantments is irrelevant to a discussion of whether or not to buy a guest box based on the value of those cards.
*I* wouldn't buy the box for those spells.

I bought it because I like to have as many characters available as possible.
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Cooperton wrote:
I fail to see how discussing the relative power and usefulness of enchantments is irrelevant to a discussion of whether or not to buy a guest box based on the value of those cards.
*I* wouldn't buy the box for those spells.

I bought it because I like to have as many characters available as possible.


Those enchantments grant a useful bonus to whoever needs that bonus in a given situation in line of sight.

That there are skills or items that IF you have them in a given game are better does not seem relevant at all.

You neither always have characters with shove, nor will you always have the items you want, especially not on all heroes. Adding these "completely worse" items to the deck does give you better access to shove/armor.

That being said, I did not argue that this is enough reason to buy the expansion for them... Your comment just comes across as pure min-maxing and "I will only by stuff if it makes me strictly more powerful". As Jack stated, there are other factors that make your games more fun, just adding powerful stuff is a sure way to make it a lot less fun in the long run.
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Eric Harman
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Particularly when it comes to the armor spell, I'd personally rather have no armor than that spell.

In almost all cases, your action is better spent on almost anything else besides granting yourself a 4+ save.

And the shove spell is just ok. The shove skill, and the repulse spell are both strictly better.
Sure, you *could* buy a $20 box to add two enchantments to the deck just because you want a bigger equipment deck. But that actually reduces both the chances of you getting better equipment, and drawing a zombie.
Getting better equipment makes the game easier, drawing a zombie makes it harder. Difficulty wise, these cards are a wash.

It's actually hilarious to me that people are using minmax as an insult when talking about this game. It's only barely an rpg. In fact, I'd argue that it's roll-playing game rather than a role-playing game.
Due to the fact that any kind of campaign has no real overarching story, nor any meaningful character progression either mechanically or storywise.
It's a silly (fun) game about killing zombies.
There is literally no way besides mechanics to judge new cards and abilities. It's not like you can play q character who learned the ancient art of the dragon skin spell from their ancestors. With one exception, the only way to get that spell is to randomly find it.

I lol at your general anger about this. Lol!
 
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Your answer just rubbed me the wrong way. Jack seems to have thought the same and he put it nicely.

I do not think Repulse is strictly better than Shove, it is just different and having both spells in a deck with short swords, apples and other less versatile goodies is nice. The armor spell is a bit lackluster, yes.

I am not sure where you are going with your RPG arguments, but whatever, for each their own I guess.



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Gutripper
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OK so overall the two enchantments might add a bit which is a positive (not looking for items that are OP anyway - making the game easier is not making the game more fun imho).

No one commented on the models' aesthetics curiously, does that mean my opinion on them is shared?
 
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Gutripper wrote:
...No one commented on the models' aesthetics curiously, does that mean my opinion on them is shared?


In general, I feel that the artist boxes are, within the context of style, unique when compared to the standard art for base games and expansions in the Zcide Universe.

An obvious statement, clearly, but relevant to me because some boxes really break the theme. As an (extreme) example, in Zcide Modern, as of S3, there was a John Kovalic box. I really like his art for a game like Munchkin, because it reinforces the silliness of the theme. However, I felt that Munchkin-esque minis in Zombicide didn't make sense.

I feel similarly about other artists' contributions as well, but not to the extent that Mr. Kovalic's art breaks immersion.

So, from that standpoint, I don't really have too much of a problem with the look of the Howe minis from what I have seen in pictures. The Giant Mountain Goat seems a bit over the top, but certainly no worse than some of the Abominations that came with Z:BP (I'm looking at you Abominatroll)... Heh.

So, strictly based on the style of the minis in Howe's set, I would be happy to have them were they say, "Gifted" to me or something, but the minis alone won't get me to buy the box--mostly because I have a lot of heroes as it is and I do not feel compelled to grab more. Especially knowing that a Season 2 is planned.

Which kind of leaves having a couple of extra cards as my main tipping point, should I elect to buy the box.

I feel the same way about the NPC-2 box incidentally. Though a buddy is saving me some of his non-English cards from NPC-2, so I am even less likely to grab that.

Short answer to the Howe question is; I like the art fine, just not enough to buy it. By comparison, the Carl Critchlow box was never even on my radar.
 
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aron craig
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Cooperton wrote:
In almost all cases, your action is better spent on almost anything else besides granting yourself a 4+ save.


Note - It's not just granting yourself a 4+ armor save, it's granting anyone in LoS armor. That's why it's not strictly inferior to actual armor.
 
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