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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Final Blow vs. Final Showdown? rss

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Carl Petit
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Hey to all! I've got a queation that needs answering... A lot of you talk about a Final Blow where you have to beat the Mastermind a 5th time to win as opposed to the Final Showdown rule that seems to be hated a bit. Might someone shed some light on that rule for me please?
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James Drury
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In FInal Showdown, after the 4th Mastermind Tactic has been defeated, the game pretty much freezes. Everyone adds up all the Recruit and Attack points in their hand, and combines the totals. The player with the highest score wins the Final Showdown, and the "5th" Mastermind card.

In Final Blow, you simply continue playing as usual, and once the Mastermind is defeated a 5th time, the game ends.

Final Showdown to many players (including myself) feels clunky and is a cheap shot at stealing a last minute win.
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Carl Petit
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blipadouzi wrote:
In FInal Showdown, after the 4th Mastermind Tactic has been defeated, the game pretty much freezes. Everyone adds up all the Recruit and Attack points in their hand, and combines the totals. The player with the highest score wins the Final Showdown, and the "5th" Mastermind card.

In Final Blow, you simply continue playing as usual, and once the Mastermind is defeated a 5th time, the game ends.

Final Showdown to many players (including myself) feels clunky and is a cheap shot at stealing a last minute win.


I agree for Final Showdown being a bit lazy rule for a last battle against the Mastermind but where does the Final Blow rule come from? Is it a generally accepted house rule or is it official in any way?
 
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Ranger Rob
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Final Showdown is just weird. Found in the base rulebook. after the 4th tactic is beaten, everyone compares hands and whoever has the highest total of Fight and recruit gets the Mastermind card and the "Bonus" VP's.

Where Final Blow you just keep playing the game and beat him the 5th time.
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Adam Steele
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I never heard of this Final Blow idea. I personally love Final Showdown. I admit, having never done Final Blow, I can't compare it mechanically, but I'd say Final Showdown as done is very cinematic. I love that the recruitment power works, because the heroes get to have their final speech before taking down the villain. Now, we don't always do it, because sometimes it just doesn't make sense in an individual game when you can see a snowball effect has applied. That extra 6 points might not make the difference. If it's been close though, especially when there's the possibility of getting more bystanders or abilities that straight-up defeat villains, it can be kind of intense. I don't think I'd ever turn down a Final Showdown with Jean Grey around, unless the player using her a lot is the one winning (which, honestly, it probably is).
 
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Rachael
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Doctor Nightmare wrote:
I agree for Final Showdown being a bit lazy rule for a last battle against the Mastermind but where does the Final Blow rule come from? Is it a generally accepted house rule or is it official in any way?


Final Blow is on the Dark City rule sheet. #7 under New Challenge Modes.

I frequently find new players go a bit recruit mad no matter how much I emphasize fight being the way to points (mostly). If that happens, I'll introduce Final Showdown to give them a shot at some VP at the end so they don't feel like it was quite as much of a blow out.
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Carl Petit
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Thanks guys! it's good to know! Man do we read these rulesheets only one time when we open up the box?
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Michael Green
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Just to add, if I remember rightly, for Final Showdown you don't just compare the recruit/attack totals from your hand, everyone plays their last hand and compares the total recruit/attack generated. Comparing totals makes it sound like you just look at the printed values.

Could be an important distinction as most decks rely on card draw/triggering super-powers to generate high numbers.
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Adelin Dumitru
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I hate being that guy, but here it is: the final showdown variant does not feel thematic, natural or fun. It is not thematic since it does not really make sense to say to the mastermind: "well, now that we've stopped your evil scheme, stop fighting us and let us fight among ourselves so that we'll be able to determine to what prison you go!". It is not natural because it feels like a pasted on variant, with nothing in common with the rest of the game, and with some peculiar rule modifications that feel out of place. It is not fun because it is too fiddly.

On the other hand, Final Blow is fun, natural and thematic. Why is it thematic? Because it seems logical that after you stopped the mastermind's tactics, you have to capture the man or woman themselves. It is natural because it just adds more of the same, that is, more of fighting against a mastermind, his or her army of evil and his or her scheme. It is fun because it increases the difficulty, but not very much, and because it provides more of a challenge, which is a welcome addition especially for those who only have the base game.

Final Blow should be the only way to play Legendary, and I do not even bother explaining the default option or the final showdown variant to new players. One of the many things that baffle me about the recent Big Trouble game, after perusing its rulebook (I spend around 30-40 minutes in the subway each day and I get bored so I had some time to read the rules) is that the designer decided to go with the Final Showdown variant, but did not even bother mentioning the Final Blow variant.

TL;DR - Final Blow is fun, thematic and natural; Final Showdown is boring, unnatural, unthematic and I urge everyone to never bother with it again.
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Jeffrey
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We play the whole game very cooperatively, but then we do the Final Showdown. We aren't looking to make the game harder, which is what Final Blow is designed to do, we just want to play one more round and do a little bragging. It's fun.
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Mike Runnestrand
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LocutusZero wrote:
We play the whole game very cooperatively, but then we do the Final Showdown. We aren't looking to make the game harder, which is what Final Blow is designed to do, we just want to play one more round and do a little bragging. It's fun.


As long as your deck doesn't rely on doing anything to get higher totals. Say, Blade or Jean Grey, who need to defeat villains to maximize their potential. Final Showdown just cares about the numbers of what's in your hand, or what you can draw without fighting. Fun for the person that wins, I guess.
 
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Jeffrey
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runnestrand wrote:
LocutusZero wrote:
We play the whole game very cooperatively, but then we do the Final Showdown. We aren't looking to make the game harder, which is what Final Blow is designed to do, we just want to play one more round and do a little bragging. It's fun.


As long as your deck doesn't rely on doing anything to get higher totals. Say, Blade or Jean Grey, who need to defeat villains to maximize their potential. Final Showdown just cares about the numbers of what's in your hand, or what you can draw without fighting. Fun for the person that wins, I guess.
Nah, we all have fun.
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Davy Ashleydale
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For that matter, why stop at 5? Keep the game going and see how many times you can defeat the Mastermind before the game ends in some other way!
 
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Adelin Dumitru
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Um, because the mastermind has 4 tactics and 1 mastermind card?

 
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Davy Ashleydale
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Um, because the mastermind has 4 tactics and 1 mastermind card?



Yeah, just write down the points on a piece of paper.
 
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Adelin Dumitru
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Yeah, I don't even know why they bother including cards in the boxes. Just give us a pen and a piece of paper and we could imagine the rest.
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