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Subject: Using Factory movement in conjunction with mech movement ability rss

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jim maher
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Apologies if this has already been asked/ answered.

If I use the factory movement action in conjunction with the mech +1 hex per movement ability would that allow the mech to move three or four hexes?


Thanks in advance for clarification.
 
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J Kaemmer
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Its 3 spaces.
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Niko
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
Its 3 spaces.
As per page 25 for those that want to look it up in the rules.
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Philip Mazzone
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You'd move 2 spaces via the factory card, and get 1 extra space for the movement ability. 3 total.
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Ian Liddle
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Xhawk wrote:
You'd move 2 spaces via the factory card, and get 1 extra space for the movement ability. 3 total.

The rules are unambiguous on page 25, but given that factory movement is described specifically as moving the same unit twice, I would have said 4 hexes otherwise.

Using the same iconography as the speed upgrade would have made way more sense.
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GAF Blizzard
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razordaze wrote:
Xhawk wrote:
You'd move 2 spaces via the factory card, and get 1 extra space for the movement ability. 3 total.

The rules are unambiguous on page 25, but given that factory movement is described specifically as moving the same unit twice, I would have said 4 hexes otherwise.

Using the same iconography as the speed upgrade would have made way more sense.

If I recall correctly, the Factory bonus USED TO let you move 4 spaces. Maybe that was the reason for the iconography.
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jim maher
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Thanks for the responses and clarification. 3 spaces was how we played it but for me at least there was a niggling ambiguity which as always you guys were good enough to clear up.
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Greg
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razordaze wrote:
Xhawk wrote:
You'd move 2 spaces via the factory card, and get 1 extra space for the movement ability. 3 total.

The rules are unambiguous on page 25, but given that factory movement is described specifically as moving the same unit twice, I would have said 4 hexes otherwise.

Using the same iconography as the speed upgrade would have made way more sense.


Wouldn't people then get confused as to how many units get the +1 (running man symbol)?

If someone thinks that factory card movement with a speed ability is a move of 4, they have to also think that a factory card without the speed ability unlocked would be a move of 3, because all they were doing is adding the factory move as 2 additional moves to whatever was the base move before.

The best way to think about it with the symbol as it is, is that regardless of how many different units you can move (2 or 3) with your normal move action, the factory card only lets you move 1 unit. But, you get to move that unit a base move of 2 spaces. If you have speed unlocked, then it's a +1 to your base move, so now a mech or character can move 3 spaces with the factory card.
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Philip Morton
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Hahma wrote:
If someone thinks that factory card movement with a speed ability is a move of 4, they have to also think that a factory card without the speed ability unlocked would be a move of 3, because all they were doing is adding the factory move as 2 additional moves to whatever was the base move before.

Huh? No, the interpretation under which you come up with 4 spaces is "Each running man means move once" and "Speed means each move can go two hexes". Without the rulebook clarification, I would say either the three or four interpretation is defensible, leaning more towards four, and it's a good thing the rulebook made clear that three is the intent.
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Greg
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Chrondeath wrote:
Hahma wrote:
If someone thinks that factory card movement with a speed ability is a move of 4, they have to also think that a factory card without the speed ability unlocked would be a move of 3, because all they were doing is adding the factory move as 2 additional moves to whatever was the base move before.

Huh? No, the interpretation under which you come up with 4 spaces is "Each running man means move once" and "Speed means each move can go two hexes". Without the rulebook clarification, I would say either the three or four interpretation is defensible, leaning more towards four, and it's a good thing the rulebook made clear that three is the intent.


Speed means you can move +1 hex. The factory card allows one unit to move 2 spaces. A mech or character has a base move of 1. That doesn't change when you unlock speed. Now you have a base move of 1 + 1 for speed. When moving with the factory card, one mech or character has a new base move of 2, based on 2 running men in one box. So you have a base move of 2 + 1 for speed.

As for each running man means move once, that is true. There are 2 running men, so the move is 2. You are taking an action on the factory card, not the top move action on your player board, so any running man symbols on that action of the player board is irrelevant.
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Matthias Reitberger
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Do we really need a clarification why 2+1 is 3 and not 4?
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Philip Morton
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1869 wrote:
Do we really need a clarification why 2+1 is 3 and not 4?

Come on, as per Factory Move + Speed ... previously 4 now 3 territories?, at one point during development it WAS four and then was changed to three (with, if I'm following right, no changes to the text on the mats, only the rulebook). If you miss the bit in the rulebook telling you that it's three, there is no other indicator. Stop implying that only crazy people would ever look at the components and come up with four spaces.
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Matthias Reitberger
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Chrondeath wrote:
1869 wrote:
Do we really need a clarification why 2+1 is 3 and not 4?

Come on, as per Factory Move + Speed ... previously 4 now 3 territories?, at one point during development it WAS four and then was changed to three (with, if I'm following right, no changes to the text on the mats, only the rulebook). If you miss the bit in the rulebook telling you that it's three, there is no other indicator. Stop implying that only crazy people would ever look at the components and come up with four spaces.


There is a +1 on the mat, if it was intended differently why not print a *2 on it?
Maybe I'm too matimatical to see it differnetly, but for me 4 just doesn't make sense. A +1 simply doesn't indicate to double something.
 
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jim maher
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Once again many thanks to all of you who made the effort to address my query. In my experience people who ask what may appear to be stupid or obvious questions to others do so not because they are brain dead or mathematically challenged rather it is because they missed or misread a rule as it was in my case.

Again most contributors on the Geek are helpful and supportive as was the case this time around.

Thanks again
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Philip Morton
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1869 wrote:
There is a +1 on the mat, if it was intended differently why not print a *2 on it?
Maybe I'm too matimatical to see it differnetly, but for me 4 just doesn't make sense. A +1 simply doesn't indicate to double something.

Speed is +1, the Factory card is *2. The distinction between 3 and 4 is whether Speed+Factory is (1+1)*2 or (1*2)+1. (No, you can't use operator precedence to claim that obviously the multiplication has to apply first.)
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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I don't see a *2 anywhere, ì just see 2 running figures in one box, no multiplicator just a 2.
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Philip Morton
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1869 wrote:
I don't see a *2 anywhere, ì just see 2 running figures in one box, no multiplicator just a 2.

And the two running figures mean "move one unit twice". What do you interpret "twice" as, mathematically?
 
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Greg
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2 spaces
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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Chrondeath wrote:
1869 wrote:
I don't see a *2 anywhere, ì just see 2 running figures in one box, no multiplicator just a 2.

And the two running figures mean "move one unit twice". What do you interpret "twice" as, mathematically?


A number, 2.
No calculation needed just counting, but if you want to calculate there is one man and another one man that would be 1 + 1 = 2.
 
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Richard Sampson
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1869 wrote:
Chrondeath wrote:
1869 wrote:
I don't see a *2 anywhere, ì just see 2 running figures in one box, no multiplicator just a 2.

And the two running figures mean "move one unit twice". What do you interpret "twice" as, mathematically?


A number, 2.
No calculation needed just counting, but if you want to calculate there is one man and another one man that would be 1 + 1 = 2.
It basically comes done to what 2 running men in a box means. If it means move a unit 2 spaces, then yes 3 is the obvious answer. If it means move a unit 2 times, then the +1 would be applied to both moves individually.

The symbology by itself is ambiguous since the faction boards imply +1 hex per running man symbol and the 2 move has 2 running man symbols.

To be honest though, I find it very difficult to believe you don't actually understand the difference.
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Greg
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Glad it's in the rules
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Matthias Reitberger
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ras2124 wrote:

The symbology by itself is ambiguous since the faction boards imply +1 hex per running man symbol and the 2 move has 2 running man symbols.


The symbol is quite clear, the 2 running man are in one box = bracket.
 
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Richard Sampson
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1869 wrote:
ras2124 wrote:

The symbology by itself is ambiguous since the faction boards imply +1 hex per running man symbol and the 2 move has 2 running man symbols.


The symbol is quite clear, the 2 running man are in one box = bracket.
The box distinguishes how many units move. It doesn't make anything else clear. Based on the previous symbol meaning alone, there is no way to know if the 2 men in a box is move 1 unit 2 spaces or move 1 unit 2 times in a row.

As I said before the faction board indicates that you get +1 for a running man symbol. It doesn't say anything about boxes.

Obviously we have the answer which is 3, but it is extremely silly of you to act as if there is no other interpretation of the symbols, especially since it was originally intended to be 4.
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