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Subject: variant initial deployment of 10% deck points rss

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Vic R
Spain
Tomares (Seville)
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Hello, I like the game but I feel that sometimes the initial draw of unit made things a bit too unbalanced, even with the mulligan allowed, if for example one side start with 3 infantry (or even better one of them a command group) and the other no one or only one and lots support cards or units too expensive cards for the start, then one player will start getting ahead from the very beginning and the situation is hard to reverse.

I propose a simple variant to avoid that problem. When you construct the deck, every player set aside a 10% cost of it on units to deploy at start. So if for example player A start with a deck of 100 action points, and player B with 120, player A will set aside units worth 10 action points to deploy at the start and B will set aside units worth 12 points. These units are not shuffled in the deck but deployed in the map in their normal zone. Start player deploys first, then the other player, who cant change their chosen start units, then game start as normal (with the 5 cards and the initial points except sceneary say otherwise). With this variant the game is also a bit faster, , eliminating the 2-3 first turns of getting your army started and going directly to the battle.

Hola, este juego me parece bastante interesante pero en mi opinión a veces se pone muy cuesta arriba desde el principio si por ejemplo un jugador empieza con 3 infanterías y el otro una o ninguna, y solo cartas de apoyo o muy caras para el comienzo (5 puntos de acción o mas).

Para evitarlo propongo una variante muy sencilla. A la hora de hacer los mazos, cada jugador comienza colocando inicialmente un 10% de los puntos de su mazo. Así si nuestro mazo es de 120 puntos, podríamos colocar inmediatamente una artillería de 3 puntos, un grupo de mando (3 puntos) y 2 infanterías de 3 puntos cada una (porque lleven algún extra). Cada jugador selecciona las unidades con las que empezar en secreto y no las baraja con el resto del mazo. Tras colocar las unidades en su zona inicial el juego comienza normalmente, con las cartas y los puntos iniciales que correspondan al escenario. De esta forma también se acelera un poco juego, al empezar cada jugador con más tropas y no tener que dedicar los primeros turnos a crecer poco a poco.

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Adam Nicholas
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Pambrun
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I like it! The adjustment to the start of the battle makes sense.

Now, not having played the game yet, what would be the downside to this variant (if any)? Also, would you suggest using your points for any resource(s) or would you recommend limiting the cards that are set aside for initial deployment to certain categories?
 
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Vic R
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I have tried twice and didnt have found any downside. The battle start sooner as there are more units and the game is effectively shorten by a couple turns, as the deck has 3-4 cards less (the cards deployed at the start) but that is a little nice side effect IMHO.

I have only tried using units to deploy (for example 1 artillery 1 command group and 2 infantry with extra equipment, each unit at 3 points to a total 12, or 2 tanks (5 points each) and 2 light infantry (1 point each). I think you could choose to start with equipment/extra cards and less units, but at the start I think that a disadvantage as you want to expand quickly and grab the better strategic points (trenches, houses, forest, etc.). In fact the problem I have with the start is to have draw only one unit and 4 equipment/extra cards (or too expensive units at start),for example, versus an oponent with 2-3 cheap units, which can expand more quickly get more action points and better position just for the initial draw. After the deploy you get the 5 initial cards so you will get equipment/extra xards soon enough


PD Thinking a bit maybe to start with a "luck" cards in hand is not that bad idea for a single point, but I have only tried it using units to deploy
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Adam Nicholas
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Pambrun
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Cool, thanks
 
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Chaos Rat
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vica8081 wrote:
Hello, I like the game but I feel that sometimes the initial draw of unit made things a bit too unbalanced, even with the mulligan allowed, if for example one side start with 3 infantry (or even better one of them a command group) and the other no one or only one and lots support cards or units too expensive cards for the start, then one player will start getting ahead from the very beginning and the situation is hard to reverse.


IMHO, it looks as a bad deck design, not a rule problem. If your deck don't work you should think it again.
 
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Proyecto Enigma
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Hi Vic,

Please, remember that all players may replace their hand once before the battle starts, if they don't like their cards.
Your variant is so interesting because it accelerate the first game turns. As you know from Draco Ideas we encourage gamers to generate house rules in order to be applied to the game if all players are agree.
Best regards,

Recuerda que todos los jugadores pueden cambiar su mano una vez antes de comenzar la batalla por si no le gustan las cartas que han obtenido.
Lo que planteas es una variante interesante que como indicas acelera los primeros turnos de juego. Es parecido al despliegue en un Escenario.
Como sabéis desde 2GM animamos a los jugadores a crear "reglas caseras" teniendo en cuenta que todos estéis de acuerdo en aplicarlas.
Un saludo
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Stephan Beal
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Proyecto Enigma wrote:
Your variant is so interesting because it accelerate the first game turns.


i just finished my first session a few hours ago and the start-up time was my only real complaint. The first 5 turns were soooo slow, trying to set up the initial supply chain to get enough AP to field a couple units to actually start fighting. Once the game got up to speed (5 or 6 turns in), it stayed that way until the end, but i will certainly be exploring options to shorten the time it takes to get the armies into battle.
 
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Stephan Beal
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vica8081 wrote:
I propose a simple variant to avoid that problem. When you construct the deck, every player set aside a 10% cost of it on units to deploy at start.


Here's a related idea which is likely much simpler to play: start out the game with 10% of your deck's total AP cost in reserve AP. e.g. if your deck has 120 points, you start off with 12 extra AP in reserve. You also get the initial 5 stated by the rules, but you can only spend/bid up to 5 for Terrain. You do not have to observe your HQ's AP reserve limit until the end of your first turn, so you could have 17 AP to start the game with.
 
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Vic R
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sgbeal wrote:
vica8081 wrote:
I propose a simple variant to avoid that problem. When you construct the deck, every player set aside a 10% cost of it on units to deploy at start.


Here's a related idea which is likely much simpler to play: start out the game with 10% of your deck's total AP cost in reserve AP. e.g. if your deck has 120 points, you start off with 12 extra AP in reserve. You also get the initial 5 stated by the rules, but you can only spend/bid up to 5 for Terrain. You do not have to observe your HQ's AP reserve limit until the end of your first turn, so you could have 17 AP to start the game with.


The only difference between start with 12 points more or start with 12 points worth of units deployed is to be able to move from turn one (like playing one turn less) and above all to chose your starting units instead using whatever is drawn by you so I still think my variant is better because it add the strategy layer of what to choose to use at the start (as opposed to start with whatever is draw for you) but of course you are welcome to use any variant that you wish.
 
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Stephan Beal
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vica8081 wrote:

The only difference between start with 12 points more or start with 12 points worth of units deployed is to be able to move from turn one (like playing one turn less) and above all to chose your starting units instead using whatever is drawn by you...


The big difference is setup time. It's much, much faster to add 12 AP than it is to select the exact cards you want to start with and to set them up.
 
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Vic R
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On one hand you are right, on the other hand at the same time that you choose the cards of your deck, you can choose the start ones, so setup is not really increased. I mean If you have a standard deck o predeck prepared then setup is increased but if you have to wait like 10-15 min to choose your deck, then you can choose you starting hand without a significant increase on time

Edit: I think the main difference is that for me those 15 min are not setup but the first part of the game, but of course your perception may vary
 
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