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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) - bang for the buck? rss

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Doug Poskitt
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Good morning people ...

Got up today and by 10:30 I was the very excited owner of Mansions of Madness (2nd Edition). Kudos to Chaos Cards for quick delivery and safe packing (as always).

Opened the packing box and sure enough, there she was ... a big, deep box all wrapped in shrink wrap and in pristine condition.

Sat down and carefully removed the shrink wrap, prised off the box cover and took out the included components one by one.

At this point, I should say that I own a few FFGs ... Battlestar Galactica series, Twilight Imperium (3rd Ed) series, Star Wars Rebellion, Merchant of Venus (2nd Ed), Eldritch Horror series, XCOM:The Board Game to name just some of them. In all cases I have been very impressed by the physical quality of the components, be it cards, map tiles/mapboards, tokens or plastic minatures.

As a wargamer of many years, it was only relatively recently that I crossed over to the more general side of gaming and my initial impressions were favourable in almost every aspect. It quickly became apparent to me that some of these games were not cheap, but then again what is these days?

Certainly, in the case of the Twilight Imperium (3rd Ed) series, I considered I got a good return from the cost of the three game boxes (£135). That can also be said for the six boxes in the Eldritch Horror series (£145).

The same goes for the other FFGs in my collection; even at £65, Star Wars Rebellion does have a hefty set of components.

That said, I took out the components of Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) and laid them out on my game table. Nine sheets of map tiles and tokens, two bags of mini cards, 5 dice, 8 investigator cards, a bag of 8 plastic investigators, a bag of plastic stands for the monsters and a bag of plastic monster minatures.

(I have not factored in the contents of the conversion kit as I am assuming they are of no use whatsoever to a newcomer to this game).

I have to say, the artwork on the map tiles is awesome and they, the tokens and the various sized cards are all up to FFG's usual standards of quality.

I am also not forgetting that we have the app or software download for free and that it plays an instrumental role in the driving and play of the game. It would be silly of me not to acknowledge the fact that an app/software release needs to be developed and maintained.

Yet ... as I scan the contents laid out before me, I do wonder about the actual amount of content I have got here when measured against the £70 purchase tag.

My initial impression is "£70 for this?".

Is it just me, or has any one else had similar thoughts?

Of course, that is far from the whole story, as there is also the many hours of fun and enjoyment to be had from what looks like a physically and atmospherically great game.

Certainly, if this game comes out to be anywhere near as much fun as Twlight Imperium (3rd Ed), Eldritch Horror, Star Wars Rebellion, Battlestar Galactica, XCOM:The Board Game et al, then I have no doubt that my initial impressions of value for money will fade significantly.


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David Ainsworth
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Definitely expensive for what you get physically. But compare it to a new £50 video game where you get no physical components and it comes down to how much you enjoy the experience of the product, right? There are certainly cheaper board games out there that I enjoy as much or more than MoM but nothing quite like MoM which, the way I look at it, is what I paid a quite reasonable price for.

Mileage will definitely vary though and component wise it's absolutely on the expensive side. Additional value will hopefully be added via extras in the app but still, expensive game.
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Mikkel Øberg
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dougposkitt wrote:
(...) there is also the many hours of fun and enjoyment to be had from what looks like a physically and atmospherically great game.


Many hours of fun for, on average 3 people, for £70, is a good deal. Done.
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Andy
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I too ordered from Chaos Cards. I have a friend who is a gold member so free next day delivery plus 3% off at the till is a great deal.

Honestly, I kind of get it. It's a little light. I'm a sucker for cards and tokens though (spent hours bagging up all the components from WFRP3 - heaven!) and TBH the monsters aren't as good as the first one.

But it's all about playability time. This is the first FFG game that I'm going to try playing solo, plus if I get decent group play out of each scenario that's not too bad. Beats a lot of hobbies.
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Steve Westrip
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The cost to develop the app would be a significant cost and when you factor in the small amount of users the app will be used by (compared to the other apps you can download for free/negligible cost) that will add a few GBP/USD to the price.
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Mark Boulter
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This was an impulse buy for me.

Having played two games of 1st ed. I was intrigued by the app and how game play would be effected.

My reasoning was if I hated it I could prob sell it on?

Well, I am two games in (with 3 & 4) players respectively, both of the first scenario and I consider the 2nd edition to be much improved on the 1st.

The whole setup time/effort for the keeper is gone! That alone is huge.

The game play seems reminiscit of the first ed. but subtly different. No line of sight checks for one.

The integration of first ed. bits (for those that own them) as 'add owns' with the included conversion kit, is an excellent idea.

Future support looks good... Well done FFG

My copy came from boardgameguru, very good price and service.
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Doug Poskitt
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Imp152 wrote:
I too ordered from Chaos Cards. I have a friend who is a gold member so free next day delivery plus 3% off at the till is a great deal.

Honestly, I kind of get it. It's a little light. I'm a sucker for cards and tokens though (spent hours bagging up all the components from WFRP3 - heaven!) and TBH the monsters aren't as good as the first one.

But it's all about playability time. This is the first FFG game that I'm going to try playing solo, plus if I get decent group play out of each scenario that's not too bad. Beats a lot of hobbies.


I agree with all the comments made so far, and I do emphasise that actual physical components is not the only factor to consider.

As for it being a hobby, it sure does beat a lot of hobbies, imo. In fact, let me say that board gaming as a hobby is absolutely wonderful; nothing beats a game that can treat 1-x number of players to an experience that can be fun, communal, challenging, interesting, absorbing, exciting ... well, I could go on
 
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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How much is dinner and a movie? Multiply that by ten.

Board games are a bargain.
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James
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Depends on your situation. If you have no concept of money because you live with your parents and everything is paid for you, or you have lots of money to burn, than expensive is not even a word.
In my case, I find $115.95 + tax + shipping very expensive when I compare this game to other games I've bought and have provided more content and in most cases better crafted miniatures.
The problem with companies over-pricing their games will only result in less sales and in turn will result in fewer if any expansions.
I can buy a computer game that will give hours and hours of enjoyment and able to play online or solo and yet pay less for it than most boardgames.
Perhaps this game should have simply been made into a computer game with a lower price tag and expansions could have been made available later on. As it stands FFG is a boardgame company and not into computer game design.
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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grahamj wrote:
Depends on your situation. If you have no concept of money because you live with your parents and everything is paid for you, or you have lots of money to burn, than expensive is not even a word.
In my case, I find $115.95 + tax + shipping very expensive when I compare this game to other games I've bought and have provided more content and in most cases better crafted miniatures.
The problem with companies over-pricing their games will only result in less sales and in turn will result in fewer if any expansions.
I can buy a computer game that will give hours and hours of enjoyment and able to play online or solo and yet pay less for it than most boardgames.
Perhaps this game should have simply been made into a computer game with a lower price tag and expansions could have been made available later on. As it stands FFG is a boardgame company and not into computer game design.


Why would you buy a game you're not planning on playing for hours and hours?
 
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Forrest K
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grahamj wrote:
Depends on your situation. If you have no concept of money because you live with your parents and everything is paid for you, or you have lots of money to burn, than expensive is not even a word.
In my case, I find $115.95 + tax + shipping very expensive when I compare this game to other games I've bought and have provided more content and in most cases better crafted miniatures.
The problem with companies over-pricing their games will only result in less sales and in turn will result in fewer if any expansions.
I can buy a computer game that will give hours and hours of enjoyment and able to play online or solo and yet pay less for it than most boardgames.
Perhaps this game should have simply been made into a computer game with a lower price tag and expansions could have been made available later on. As it stands FFG is a boardgame company and not into computer game design.


It could be a video game...and then yould be robbed of the social aspect of the boardgame which has been immensely worthwhile for us so far.

Yes the game is expensive, but the experience and potential variability provided by the app makes it cheaper than a video game in the long run and certainly cheaper than a nice dinner (~2 hours?).
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Jonathan
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bryanwinter wrote:
How much is dinner and a movie? Multiply that by ten.

Board games are a bargain.


Yes, and some boardgames are better value than others, which I believe is the point of the article.
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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JJWonderboy wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
How much is dinner and a movie? Multiply that by ten.

Board games are a bargain.


Yes, and some boardgames are better value than others, which I believe is the point of the article.


And my point was even if one boardgame is a worse value than another, it is still a much better value than most other forms of entertainment. By a long shot.

I'm frankly surprised so many people don't see that.
 
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the bear
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using that logic you can defend someone asking a 100 bucks for a deck of cards. The truth is, they can ask that much, because people are (apparently) willing to pay it and they would make more money. Nobody is running a charity.
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Doug Poskitt
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bryanwinter wrote:
JJWonderboy wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
How much is dinner and a movie? Multiply that by ten.

Board games are a bargain.


Yes, and some boardgames are better value than others, which I believe is the point of the article.


And my point was even if one boardgame is a worse value than another, it is still a much better value than most other forms of entertainment. By a long shot.

I'm frankly surprised so many people don't see that.


It's been my experience that a lot of gamers would wholeheartedly agree with you; I certainly do. For example, the £70 spent on Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) might pay for a pub meal and a couple of beers each (here in the UK) for four people, which while enjoyable in itself, is a one-off experience. (Multiple experiences can be had for multiples of £70 of course ).

The point I was making was a relative one when compared to other games (whether they be published by FFG or Ares Games or whoever). The actual contents of this version of Mansions of Madness are a little light when compared to others; though it must be borne in mind that the app/software must be paid for somehow ...
 
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oldschoolgamr
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dougposkitt wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
JJWonderboy wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
How much is dinner and a movie? Multiply that by ten.

Board games are a bargain.


Yes, and some boardgames are better value than others, which I believe is the point of the article.


And my point was even if one boardgame is a worse value than another, it is still a much better value than most other forms of entertainment. By a long shot.

I'm frankly surprised so many people don't see that.


It's been my experience that a lot of gamers would wholeheartedly agree with you; I certainly do. For example, the £70 spent on Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) might pay for a pub meal and a couple of beers each (here in the UK) for four people, which while enjoyable in itself, is a one-off experience. (Multiple experiences can be had for multiples of £70 of course ).

The point I was making was a relative one when compared to other games (whether they be published by FFG or Ares Games or whoever). The actual contents of this version of Mansions of Madness are a little light when compared to others; though it must be borne in mind that the app/software must be paid for somehow ...


The way I think of it is that the app replaces NUMEROUS events decks, combat decks, spawn event decks, horror check effect decks, map layout guides, and flavor text scenario cards. Not only is their cost in the app, but I don't have to store them, shuffle them, transport them, or sleeve them. Can't blame them for wanting to still get paid for generating the content on them even if their physical versions don't come in the box. Those blurbs need to be written after all...
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Three Headed Monkey
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And while not as impressive as miniatures there are nine more room tiles in the 2nd ed box than the first, so there is a good deal more cardboard in the box than first ed.
 
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JD Snider
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Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition sure looks interesting, but honestly there is no way I'll ever buy it. Personally I think that FFG prices have reached pretty ridiculous levels relative to other games in the industry. Sure there are some exceptions, but on average you can find plenty of great games that can give you just as many hours of entertainment (and therefore 'value') for significantly less.

The fact is that since the Asmodee acquisition (and even for some time before that) FFG prices having been climbing quickly, while box content has been decreasing. Even quality in some cases as been decreasing (e.g. for dice in some games), although this is much less prevalent. And again, this IS actually fact - you can easily look at how radically things have changed with them in the last few years.

Now I'm sure people will continue to come up with all sorts of justifications etc., and hey I'm not here to argue with them about things like how 'fun' a game is, how many hours you get from it, whether the cost of plastics has increased etc., because it's largely pointless. People value different things and if you love something you're going to want to defend it (it's natural). But $115 CA for Mansions of Madness second edition? Seriously?? That's actually moved with striking distance of Games Workshop board game pricing (which unless you're a miniatures hobbyist is pretty crazy in itself). And for me, who was a pretty big FFG fan for years, this is just too much.

Sure FFG/Asmodee are a business, and they're in business to make money, and I understand that; but their current pricing model seems to be designed to milk as much money out of the customer as possible, and (silly though I may be) that just doesn't sit right with me.
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Doug Poskitt
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While I think the fun a gamer gets from the game itself is still an important factor, especially if its replayability level is high, I think that if this trend continues, more and more hobbyists will start to be critical of the price vs contents issue.

I cannot help but contrast the £70 for Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) - with its 4 scenarios (so far) - to my recent purchase of all 6 boxes (three large, three small) of Eldritch Horror at £145. Those six boxes of EH amount to a heck of a lot of components and many, many hours of entertainment.

While I do not regret my purchase of Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed), should this trend be the general direction FFG is going in, then I for one will weight up very carefully any purchases I might be tempted to make in the future.

The Eldritch Horror comparison is only one I could make; consider what you actually get, component and entertainment-wise, in the Star Wars Imperial Assault core box, and that for nearly £10 less than Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed). (Granted, one has the associated app, the other doesn't).

FFG built a reputation of giving gamers great games with quality components at reasonable prices. They aren't going to sustain that reputation if they start to hike prices and reduce components/quality.

While certain games will atract hordes of hobbyists (e.g. Star Wars themed games), whoever is responsible for policy decisions cannot market products that attract intelligent, thinking people and then edge towards the slope of treating them like morons.

As much fun as Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) might be, and accounting for the app, £70 (or even more, depending on where you buy it) is still a lot to pay for what you actually get.
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Ivan Cox
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It's hard to deny the price creep. On this side of the pond, we've been hit by a double whammy of the exchange rate going down the pan as a result of the vote to leave the EU, and the FFG increases. I was genuinely shocked to see this at £92.99 RRP. Combined with the decision to present the same monster miniatures with bases which are now both clunky and somewhat redundant (no more monsters with the same name but different stats, as 1st ed had), it does seem like an attempt to get more for less. Mansions is nothing compared to the Runebound expansions at £15.99 RRP though. Compare that to Eldritch Horror small box expansions at £19.99 RRP and the value is again I'd say genuinely shockingly worse.

I still think they produce great games. Mansions is great, and I think it's also a taste of the future in terms of intelligent app integration. And don't forget that it seems likely that everybody will be able to access the scenarios which accompany the reboxed first ed stuff, bringing the total to six (barring a move to more aggressive controls on access).
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Luke Jacobs
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I think most of what you pay for in MoM is the app production.

I'm pleased with it so far. I think it's a great integration, and even when I think I've seen all the variations, it changes something new. Eventually that will run out, but it's still surprising me.

Most of the minis are adequate. The Star Spawn are cool. Some of them, I just don't care for. Certainly not what I'm used to from FFG.

The boards are really nice GoW style, and the small cards are the usual FFG small cards.

Is it worth it? I've found it to be so.

There aren't a lot of physical components in that enormous box though.

Re: App integration. I like what I've seen of it from FFG so far, however, I don't see myself wanting to get out my laptop every time I play every game going forward. I think they'll be a part of my collection going forward, but just a part.

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Fruit Eating Bear
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I'm just finishing up my 6th play of it, in three days - I absolutely love it, as you can tell.

I don't think there's a huge amount of replayability in it, though. I've played the first scenario three times and have seen two different configurations, and have played the Innsmouth one three times, which has been the same layout every time. For me, then, it compares to something like TIME Stories, which cost me £25 for the base game and 3 x £15 for the additional stories. MoM cost me £70 so it works out at exactly the same. Although I like TIME Stories I'm really hooked on MoM, and can't wait until they fix the save game bug so I can have a crack at the 6 hour behemoth.

I'm concerned that there seems to be only one path in the two 2E scenarios I've played so far whereas there were multiple ones in the first edition but, for me, if you're happy to pay the TIME Stories cost then this one's fairly-priced.
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dougposkitt wrote:
While I think the fun a gamer gets from the game itself is still an important factor, especially if its replayability level is high, I think that if this trend continues, more and more hobbyists will start to be critical of the price vs contents issue.

I cannot help but contrast the £70 for Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) - with its 4 scenarios (so far) - to my recent purchase of all 6 boxes (three large, three small) of Eldritch Horror at £145. Those six boxes of EH amount to a heck of a lot of components and many, many hours of entertainment.

While I do not regret my purchase of Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed), should this trend be the general direction FFG is going in, then I for one will weight up very carefully any purchases I might be tempted to make in the future.

The Eldritch Horror comparison is only one I could make; consider what you actually get, component and entertainment-wise, in the Star Wars Imperial Assault core box, and that for nearly £10 less than Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed). (Granted, one has the associated app, the other doesn't).

FFG built a reputation of giving gamers great games with quality components at reasonable prices. They aren't going to sustain that reputation if they start to hike prices and reduce components/quality.

While certain games will atract hordes of hobbyists (e.g. Star Wars themed games), whoever is responsible for policy decisions cannot market products that attract intelligent, thinking people and then edge towards the slope of treating them like morons.

As much fun as Mansions of Madness (2nd Ed) might be, and accounting for the app, £70 (or even more, depending on where you buy it) is still a lot to pay for what you actually get.


Imperial assault is getting a (presumably free) app later though. Descent already has one that is free (it only has 1.5 scenarios though). So that kind of counts against MoM justifying its price tag with the app since you get it for free for other games (unless the app is significantly more sophisticated than the other games which I wouldn't know yet since I haven't played it yet).

I would imagine more scenarios will be released for MoM. I'm expecting a few freebies then a few cheap ones and a maybe a few expensive ones with some gimmick or uniqueness. Campaigns are all the rage for these...maybe even a full multi-scenario campaign? I'd buy that since I can play solo.
 
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