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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Willingly pushing for fun and profit rss

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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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Willingly pushing each other around seems a bit exploitable. Here's a totally hypothetical and unlikely scenario, but using it to confirm legality.

Imagine four investigators, A through D, in a line of four adjacent spaces. Investigator E is in the same space as investigator A. The Investigator Phase begins.

Investigators A through D each spend their turn pushing investigator E one space down the line. Then E takes her turn, moving twice (for 2 spaces each) and effectively traveling 8 spaces this Phase.

Goofy, yes, but legal?

I can see using a push as a great way to use an action to "boost" another player. Also, comedy gold.

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Julia
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Sounds legal to me. Wondering why you have to waste so many actions on Investigator E, tho. Wouldn't it be trading the needed item a better option? And how often do you have investigators walking in line (please someone turns off that Joy Division song from my head)?

(still, not a big fan of pushing in general, it's not realistic)
 
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Sounds legal to me. Wondering why you have to waste so many actions on Investigator E, tho. Wouldn't it be trading the needed item a better option? And how often do you have investigators walking in line (please someone turns off that Joy Division song from my head)?

(still, not a big fan of pushing in general, it's not realistic)


As I said, hypothetical and unlikely.

And I agree.
 
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Rob

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I also agree. A better option might be that a push counts as two actions per space (one for each miniature moved). That seems more realistic to me. Pushing an unwilling person/monster is really difficult.
 
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Sean West
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Your scenario sounds legal but it doesn't really seem like an "exploit" to me since it is less efficient to move E that way than to just use regular move actions, especially when you combine that with the fact that all of the other investigators are losing half their turn.

I can't imagine what it would be but I can only see this being a useful tactic in a very specific and limited set of circumstances. If that one-in-a-million opportunity came along and they did this to resolve a situation, I would praise them for their ingenuity rather than accuse them of exploiting the rules.
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Chris J Davis
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Saber72 wrote:
I also agree. A better option might be that a push counts as two actions per space (one for each miniature moved). That seems more realistic to me. Pushing an unwilling person/monster is really difficult.


This change really isn't needed. The situation for it to be abused doesn't come up nearly as often as some people in this thread seem to think it does, and when you *do* need to be able to do it, you need to actually be able to do it (not cost two actions).

And anyway, if it cost two actions how would you *ever* do it? You would have to start your turn in the space with the person you wanted to push, which seems unlikely to say the least.
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bleached_lizard wrote:
You would have to start your turn in the space with the person you wanted to push, which seems unlikely to say the least.


OK, this statement confused me. Why would it be unlikely that you share a space with another investigator? Seems like you would be sharing a space all the time.

Yes, the "conga line" is, as I said (again), hypothetical and unlikely. It's a thought experiment.

But, I foresee willingly pushing someone not as "rare" as you seem to indicate. If I'm in a (yes, probably unlikely) situation where I have a "free" action to spend, giving a comrade a helpful shove would always be a viable option.

I guess my question stems from labeling it as a "rarely used" action. It feels sort of like fatigue moving in Descent; a very tactical option that is often overlooked.
 
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For example:

As his first action, I nvestigator A (with low Oservation) explores and opens a room (like a library of study or lab) which yields a few search icons. Instead of optionally moving into the room, as his second action he picks up and carries (aka willingly pushes) investigator B (with a high Observation) into said room, giving B two actions to examine those books and papers.

Effectively, A lost an action but B gained one.
 
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Jim
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How does push work with Evade?

Scenario: Two investigators and a monster in one square. The active investigator pushes the second inactive investigator through a door to safety.

The active investigator checks evade, if he is successful with the push but not the evade does he remain and the other reach 'safety'? Does the whole push action fail? What would be the order of these checks?

Does the second inactive investigator check evade? If so what happens when the active investigator successfully pushes and successfully evades, but the inactive investigator doesn't make the evade check?

Does the second inactive investigator have to check evade at all if they declare that the push is not accepting willingly (i.e. Voluntarily)?

Sorry, in a real muddle!
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If the push is a "willing" push, as in, the investigator being pushed wants to be pushed, then it is automatically successful. So, in your scenario, if "A" wants to shove himself and "B" to the next space, then all that would be required would be the successful Evade by investigator A.

If the Evade test is a success, he grabs B by the collar and freely pulls him along. If not, the action is lost.

Great use of the action!
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Jim
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Waydaminit..

So the Push Action does not need an Evade Check at all, nor for either Investigator?

Edit: In respect to the above scenario.
 
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cotgrave wrote:
Waydaminit..

So the Push Action does not need an Evade Check at all, nor for either Investigator?

Edit: In respect to the above scenario.


If there is an enemy present in your space and you want to do any action besides attack, you must first successfully evade. If you succeed, the action is performed normally. I presume that would include a push.
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AH!

My sincere apologies, you were perfectly clear in your first response - I am not sure where my disconnect was there..

Clear in every respect now - thank you!
 
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bryanwinter wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
You would have to start your turn in the space with the person you wanted to push, which seems unlikely to say the least.


OK, this statement confused me. Why would it be unlikely that you share a space with another investigator? Seems like you would be sharing a space all the time.


If you're all just walking around always keeping to the same space, you will lose. The investigators need to spread out to be able to explore the required area in the time allowed.

Additionally, it's not just "be in a space with an investigator"; it's "be in a space with the *right* investigator at the *right* time". It just never happens.

Quote:
Yes, the "conga line" is, as I said (again), hypothetical and unlikely. It's a thought experiment.

But, I foresee


Exactly: "foresee". I've been playing this game for months. It doesn't happen. If the best use you've got for your action is to move another investigator one space (and you're not Insane), you're doing something seriously wrong.

Quote:
willingly pushing someone not as "rare" as you seem to indicate. If I'm in a (yes, probably unlikely) situation where I have a "free" action to spend, giving a comrade a helpful shove would always be a viable option.


If you're saying it's unlikely, then that's fare enough. I can definitely confirm that 99 times out of 100 there is something better to do with your action.

Quote:
I guess my question stems from labeling it as a "rarely used" action. It feels sort of like fatigue moving in Descent; a very tactical option that is often overlooked.


By far and away the most common use for it is when you're Insane or some edge cases against monsters. Using it on other investigators just for a small speed boost just never happens, as the other investigators are quite capable of moving on their own.
 
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Thanks for clarifying my basic rule question.
 
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