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Kawaguchi's Gamble: Edson's Ridge» Forums » Rules

Subject: Interesting but confusing rss

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Derek Croxton
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I finally got to play this one last night, and I ended up with a number of rules questions, I apologize if these are answered elsewhere:

(1) I will echo someone else's question whether you are allowed to retreat into an empty enemy-controlled area. It would appear not, but it seems odd that you can retreat into an enemy-controlled, enemy-occupied area provided there is at least one friendly unit in it, but you cannot retreat into a completely empty area that is enemy controlled. What does "control" even mean at this level? For VP purposes, I get it, but what is there in that enemy area that is stopping you from retreating?

(2) Let's say I have 6 fresh units in an area and I take 10 CP. I can take them by flipping 5 units to spent and retreating them one area. I don't want to leave the other unit by himself, so I voluntarily retreat him. He has to be spent to retreat, but it also says that "units that voluntarily retreat increase their Exhaustion level by one." Does that mean he become D1 after the retreat? I presume he would also end at D1 if he started the impulse spent?

(3) Regarding the American supply dump, what if a Japanese group is moving *through* the area with the dump? Does it have to stop, or does it keep going? Does it reveal the dump? If it has to stop, what happens if that would leave it overstacked? Since stacking restrictions only apply at the end of an impulse, it could easily be moving through an area where it would be overstacked.

(4) Some American machine gun units have a black AF on the front. Does this mean that they may be the point unit in an assault? Or they aren't machine guns when fresh? Or is it a printing error?

(5) I get that red AF means a unit can't be a point unit in an attack, but why are MG units AF in parentheses on the reverse? They can't do ranged fire, but neither can any other spent unit, so why is their's different?

(6) It seems like the only thing spent units can do in an activation is move/assault; none of the others apply. Is that correct?

(7) If the Americans use a leader to affect the Japanese ammo track, it says they have to roll below the number. This is different than the Japanese, who have to roll equal or below, except for the last number. Is that correct? (Having the last number be treated differently is kind of confusing. I understand it, but why didn't they just make the number 1 lower? The only thing it seems to affect is if the Americans roll against it, and it seems like it would be easier to have a special rule for that one case than to make the numbers behave differently most of the time.)

I would just add that, while I like the idea of infiltration and patrol actions, they don't seem very useful. In patrolling, you take a chance of flipping your own unit to flip (or disrupt) an enemy unit, but since American units don't recover automatically, it doesn't seem worth the risk. Infiltration would be great in Storm Over Arnhem, but since in this game you get to assault when you move in an area, you're gaining very little by infiltrating (basically, one point in combat) and you're giving up half of your assaulting units and probably unit integrity as well. I must be missing something. Is it just a way to sneak through American lines and get to the airfield?

Derek
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ken dunn
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dcroxton wrote:
I finally got to play this one last night, and I ended up with a number of rules questions, I apologize if these are answered elsewhere:

(1) I will echo someone else's question whether you are allowed to retreat into an empty enemy-controlled area. It would appear not, but it seems odd that you can retreat into an enemy-controlled, enemy-occupied area provided there is at least one friendly unit in it, but you cannot retreat into a completely empty area that is enemy controlled. What does "control" even mean at this level? For VP purposes, I get it, but what is there in that enemy area that is stopping you from retreating?

(2) Let's say I have 6 fresh units in an area and I take 10 CP. I can take them by flipping 5 units to spent and retreating them one area. I don't want to leave the other unit by himself, so I voluntarily retreat him. He has to be spent to retreat, but it also says that "units that voluntarily retreat increase their Exhaustion level by one." Does that mean he become D1 after the retreat? I presume he would also end at D1 if he started the impulse spent?

(3) Regarding the American supply dump, what if a Japanese group is moving *through* the area with the dump? Does it have to stop, or does it keep going? Does it reveal the dump? If it has to stop, what happens if that would leave it overstacked? Since stacking restrictions only apply at the end of an impulse, it could easily be moving through an area where it would be overstacked.

(4) Some American machine gun units have a black AF on the front. Does this mean that they may be the point unit in an assault? Or they aren't machine guns when fresh? Or is it a printing error?

(5) I get that red AF means a unit can't be a point unit in an attack, but why are MG units AF in parentheses on the reverse? They can't do ranged fire, but neither can any other spent unit, so why is their's different?

(6) It seems like the only thing spent units can do in an activation is move/assault; none of the others apply. Is that correct?

(7) If the Americans use a leader to affect the Japanese ammo track, it says they have to roll below the number. This is different than the Japanese, who have to roll equal or below, except for the last number. Is that correct? (Having the last number be treated differently is kind of confusing. I understand it, but why didn't they just make the number 1 lower? The only thing it seems to affect is if the Americans roll against it, and it seems like it would be easier to have a special rule for that one case than to make the numbers behave differently most of the time.)

I would just add that, while I like the idea of infiltration and patrol actions, they don't seem very useful. In patrolling, you take a chance of flipping your own unit to flip (or disrupt) an enemy unit, but since American units don't recover automatically, it doesn't seem worth the risk. Infiltration would be great in Storm Over Arnhem, but since in this game you get to assault when you move in an area, you're gaining very little by infiltrating (basically, one point in combat) and you're giving up half of your assaulting units and probably unit integrity as well. I must be missing something. Is it just a way to sneak through American lines and get to the airfield?

Derek


Thanks for playing, I'll try to answer the specific rules questions

1. Retreat priority does not allow you to retreat into enemy controlled but unoccupied areas.

2.The Fresh unit that wants to voluntarily retreat would increase exhaustion by one from Fresh to Spent and then retreat.

3. As soon as the Active Japanese unit(s) try to leave the area with the Supply Dump then they end there movement immediately in the area with the dump. The dump is exposed. If the Area is somehow overstacked at the end of the impulse then the Japanese player must remove enough units to get back to the maximum amount allowed.

4. It was a printing error. They were replaced in one of the MMP magazines. I'm sorry I do not recall which one.

5. Counter Error

6. Spent American units may also Patrol.

7. This was errata. The American leader follows the Japanese process so that on the last box it must be less than and not less than or equal to.

Hope that helps.

ken
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Derek Croxton
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Thanks, that was very helpful.

I did forget two other questions. The rules seem clear that Japanese units get a +1 in banzai/bayonet charges, I just wanted to clarify that this is intended to apply to bayonet charges as well.

The rules mention that attacking units in a banzai charge can continue moving in an overrun, but an overrun is defined as inflicting more CP than the defender can absorb, which is technically not possible because combat is resolved as close combat and not an assault. I would assume that an overrun would occur any time the defenders are eliminated, but I wanted to make sure that's right.
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ken dunn
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dcroxton wrote:
Thanks, that was very helpful.

I did forget two other questions. The rules seem clear that Japanese units get a +1 in banzai/bayonet charges, I just wanted to clarify that this is intended to apply to bayonet charges as well.

The rules mention that attacking units in a banzai charge can continue moving in an overrun, but an overrun is defined as inflicting more CP than the defender can absorb, which is technically not possible because combat is resolved as close combat and not an assault. I would assume that an overrun would occur any time the defenders are eliminated, but I wanted to make sure that's right.


The Americans do not get the +1, only the Japanese do.

The close combat happens as soon as the Banzai/Bayonet unit(s) enter the target area so Overrun is possible should the target area be cleared becasue you are still in the Impulse phase.
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Derek Croxton
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Thanks again, Ken. I guess I didn't phrase my question about the +1 close combat bonus well. I realize only the Japanese get it, but do they get it in a bayonet charge (by the American player) or only in a banzai charge? It would seem logical that it would only be in a banzai charge, but the rules don't specify that, they just say the Japanese.
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ken dunn
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Just in the Banzai charge
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