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Conflict of Heroes: Eastern Front – Solo Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: RE on Control Marker rss

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Patrick Mooney
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Just had a RE move onto a German Control Marker.
1)Should that be a possible move?
2)If it is a proper move, what happens?

Patrick
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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padraic49 wrote:
Just had a RE move onto a German Control Marker.
1)Should that be a possible move?
2)If it is a proper move, what happens?

Patrick


I think you draw to see if the RE is real, but might be mistaken
 
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James Palmer
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klkitchens wrote:
padraic49 wrote:
Just had a RE move onto a German Control Marker.
1)Should that be a possible move?
2)If it is a proper move, what happens?

Patrick


I think you draw to see if the RE is real, but might be mistaken


An interesting situation! Yes, if in this case it's a Soviet AI then you should draw a counter for it to see if it flips the control marker.



EDIT: I've completely changed my mind on this, see below discussion. I've emailed Uwe for confirmation.
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Russ Williams
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Felkor wrote:
klkitchens wrote:
padraic49 wrote:
Just had a RE move onto a German Control Marker.
1)Should that be a possible move?
2)If it is a proper move, what happens?

Patrick


I think you draw to see if the RE is real, but might be mistaken


An interesting situation! Yes, if in this case it's a Soviet AI then you should draw a counter for it to see if it flips the control marker.


FWIW this isn't mentioned in 4.1.4 Mission Objective or 6.2 Revealing Rumored Enemy. Is it somewhere else in the rules, or are you giving an official clarification/erratum?

(I could easily imagine the intent being the other way, i.e. in the absence of some rule to the contrary, RE can take control of a control marker if it's not sufficiently guarded by the player, since "RE are treated like other AIs." (6.1))
 
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richard dyrda
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Yes, in essence "We think the enemy control that dirt we want to hold onto. Go get it." Perception is reality in practice.

I do not think I would draw anyone, but rather keep the RE and flip control to maintain the above theme elements.
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James Palmer
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You guys give some good points. I'll pop Uwe an email and see what he says.

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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Dyrda wrote:
Yes, in essence "We think the enemy control that dirt we want to hold onto. Go get it." Perception is reality in practice.

I do not think I would draw anyone, but rather keep the RE and flip control to maintain the above theme elements.


This only works though if no points are rewarded for it.
 
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Russ Williams
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klkitchens wrote:
Dyrda wrote:
Yes, in essence "We think the enemy control that dirt we want to hold onto. Go get it." Perception is reality in practice.

I do not think I would draw anyone, but rather keep the RE and flip control to maintain the above theme elements.


This only works though if no points are rewarded for it.

That's not entirely clear to me; if the RE turns out later to be not a real unit, a case like this could be considered to represent some tiny enemy group, below the scale of a game's combat unit, but still able to change "control" of an empty location. Or it represents an enemy combat unit which later disbanded/deserted/whatever!
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Lewis Karl
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In the absence of clarification from Gunter, the rules for revealing RE clearly do not say RE is revealed when reaching an objective. So I would play it that way until clarified.

It makes some sense. If Player fears AI will get points for control, then Player should fire on RE holding objective or otherwise cause the RE to be revealed. This gives some drive (Player motivation) to the FF that would not exist if RE was revealed.
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Peter Kossits
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I think the human player has to be punished for not covering the board in such a way as to reveal the RE. It should always be a priority to get those markers exposed as quickly as possible. I would make the control marker flip.
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Patrick Mooney
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All the players units were spent very early in the game. One unit came on the board and was spent. The RE moved several times before occuppying the the control marker.
Just the luck of the draw
 
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James Palmer
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peterk1 wrote:
I think the human player has to be punished for not covering the board in such a way as to reveal the RE. It should always be a priority to get those markers exposed as quickly as possible. I would make the control marker flip.


You guys have me completely convinced, and frankly, this also matches up with the rules as written.

So I would say play it this way until you hear otherwise. I did email Uwe, but he'll have just gotten home from GenCon... I'll let you know when I hear back from him.
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Peter Kossits
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It's also the most exciting way to play it. Having to assault an objective with a RE sitting on top of it just oozes fun.
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James Palmer
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Got response from Uwe and sounds like we are all in agreement:

Quote:

The Control Marker changes control. War is psychological and if forces think it is occupied by the enemy, they are affected by this intel.
If the RE is ever revealed at a future point and turns out not to be a unit, the Control does not revert. The damage has been done and friendly non-AI forces must occupy it again to revert it back to their control.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Felkor wrote:
Got response from Uwe and sounds like we are all in agreement:

Quote:

The Control Marker changes control. War is psychological and if forces think it is occupied by the enemy, they are affected by this intel.
If the RE is ever revealed at a future point and turns out not to be a unit, the Control does not revert. The damage has been done and friendly non-AI forces must occupy it again to revert it back to their control.


Well, I was the original erroneous voice. But y'all talked me into it and Uwe cemented it
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Russ Williams
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klkitchens wrote:
Well, I was the original erroneous voice. But y'all talked me into it and Uwe cemented it

I was the original dissenter! Victory Point for me!
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Patrick Mooney
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Thank you to all for the imput. Sometimes I wonder how people learned to play these games before the internet.

Patrick
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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padraic49 wrote:
Thank you to all for the imput. Sometimes I wonder how people learned to play these games before the internet.

Patrick


Mark Herman says one of his early jobs was replying to rules questions sent via mail.

We now pause our game for weeks as we check with the publisher.
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Kurt R
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It was my life, like all lives, mysterious and irrevocable and sacred. So very close, so very present, so very belonging to me. How wild it was to let it be.
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padraic49 wrote:
Thank you to all for the imput. Sometimes I wonder how people learned to play these games before the internet.

Patrick

We wrote letters to the company and waited patiently for them to reply, heh. I can pick up any of my "The General" magazines and see letters from people I now recognize on BGG.

On a related subject, we also navigated to places with handwritten directions or just a map. Now THOSE were dark days.
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Peter Kossits
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enzo622 wrote:

We wrote letters to the company and waited patiently for them to reply, heh.


You forgot to mention the bit about having to phrase the question so it could be answered with a yes or no. That used to piss me off so much.
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