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Subject: Why would I want to move resources? rss

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Sebastian Zarzycki
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After a first game, we had a hard time to wrap our head around it. Seemed like there's no point in moving resources, unless we got a rule wrong. Since you can freely spend from all the hexes you control, we saw no point in moving resources. If you move to a hex with opponent's character/mech, your movement ends anyway. Battle trigger after all all the movement within the action, so it's not like you can enter with one mech, fight, and then sweep resources with the other. Now, if you win, opponent retreats. Chances are, he won't be able to strike back next turn. This means, that instead of moving resources around, you could just spend them next turn (safer, more action compression).

So, what I'm missing here?
 
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Jeremy Santiago
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You have to control the territory in which the resources reside in order to use them. Without a building or character/worker/mech in the area, another faction could swoop in and steal the abandoned resources.
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Frank Hamrick
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Moving them with your mech keeps them 'protected.' Anyone who moves in a hex with any of his units takes control of those resources. Once you leave them alone, anyone can move to their hexes and claim them for himself.
 
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BAM
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Protects them from poaching. If another player sees you amassing resources on a tile they might try to bully you off the territory to steal them. Moving them deeper into territories with more workers or a mech might make an enemy player more gun shy. Trading one popularity for a nice bunch of resources isn't that bad a deal. Trading two or three? Might not seem so worth it now
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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What I think you are missing is that if you force an enemy to retreat with combat, they cannot take their resources with them. Keeping your resources close to the front lines is very risky as if you lose combat you will lose the resources.
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Greg
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You may have resources on a territory with workers but may want to move the workers to another territory to produce there. So you will want to bring the resources with you in order to use them at some point, as well as not leaving them in a territory where you don't have any units.
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
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SSGMightyMouse wrote:
Without a building

Keep in mind a building only gives you control of a hex as long as no other player's units are in the hex. If someone relies on just a building to give them control, a lowly worker can wrest control away from them.
 
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Jon David
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A great example of why moving resources is important. I was on a hex adjacent to the factory with 6 wood, 1 mech, and 2 workers. The Rusviet player decided to move with his mech and a worker from a village he controlled to the Factory because he needed wood. Had I been thinking about it, I would have moved those resources on a previous turn to a place out of range for the other 4 players. Instead, I had an unprepared for combat AND if I hadnt stolen his 5 combat card(mech ability) from him, I would have lost it and those resources. I would not have been able to build on my next action as I would not have ANY wood.
 
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Alan Castree
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Depends on the situation. You have to move your resources otherwise you can't use them. Since you'll be moving your workers around to make more resources, they often carry previously made resources with them.

However, you do want to keep them out of the way. I played Crimean last game and unlocked my Warfare and Movement abilities. This would allow me to pretty quickly teleport to an unused base, hop off and build a structure. Since they were pretty far out of the way, it was a good place to stash my resources... but possibly not.



Polania won this battle against Rusviet. They didn't know it, but they could have also rushed over to my Mill (Polania can river walk to mountains) and claim that territory and resource (which had two on it by the end of the game). I would have lost 5g in endgame scoring. Thank goodness this didn't occur to him and I ended the game before he realized that.

Really just depends on the situation.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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These are all good answers. That said, I remain unconvinced, at least when it comes to 2p game. Maybe when it's more crowded, it makes more sense. In 2p game, it would seem to me, that you:

a) won't going to amass resources, as you will spend them more quickly. Truth be told I'm not sure how amassing resources is good anyway. Seems to me like kicking yourself out of tempo.
b) won't be threatened by attacks from different directions
c) will spread yourself on many hexes, because they're simply available - gives a lot of points at the end of the game.

But even in general, I would imagine, that entering other opponent hexes is risky business and probably rarely pays off. If you won previous fight, you better use those resources in that same or next turn. Otherwise, I would imagine, other players will rush to attack you in turn, since you made yourself weak last turn - an easy star to get. You won't have time to use these resources or take them away.

But maybe it's just groupthink / tunnel vision at this point.

Anyway, not complaining, was just genuinely curious. After all it's better for the game to have such option, than to not have it :)
 
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Gareth Roberts
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I was playing Polania, ended up playing a double event (using my faction power) that gave me something silly like 6 oil on some random hex nowhere near my domain.

I couldn't spend that all at once as i think my upgrade cost was 2 or 3 oil.

I didn't want my hero to hang around on that one random hex to upgrade over several turns so i had to carry the oil around on the bears back for a few turns.

Other than that I've used it a few times when migrating workers and not having spent all resources on their tile yet. I would say it has saved me significant chunks of turns when I've used it so its an integral mechanic even if you're not using it all the time.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Fair enough. Let's see how it works out in my other games.
 
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Greg
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Most people likely play with more than 2 people, so moving resources can be more important with more people and a tighter board.

Spending all your resources every turn may not be the most efficient play.

When you get a lot of workers out and the mill too, then take a produce action, you really can't spend all those resources right away.

Objective cards may require you to control a certain number of territories, so you may need to carry resources when moving to complete that objective.

Whether you are convinced or not doesn't really matter. You don't have to move any resources if you don't want to. But it's in the rules for a reason and other people have found plenty of use for moving them.
 
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Philip Morton
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It seems like a weird view to consider "moving resources" as a thing that needs justification. It's just the way that you reconcile "resources exist on the map and you have to control them to use them" with "your units can move".

Another specific instance of needing to move resources that I've seen a few times: You open the game moving both your workers to a village to start getting up to eight workers. Between produces, you trade for some metal so you can build a mech to ferry your new pile of workers off the space. If your mat has your mech costing 3 metal, you'll have a leftover resource from the trades that you'll have to carry with you when you empty the village.
 
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Jonathan Kinney
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rattkin wrote:
These are all good answers. That said, I remain unconvinced, at least when it comes to 2p game. Maybe when it's more crowded, it makes more sense. In 2p game, it would seem to me, that you:

a) won't going to amass resources, as you will spend them more quickly. Truth be told I'm not sure how amassing resources is good anyway. Seems to me like kicking yourself out of tempo.
b) won't be threatened by attacks from different directions
c) will spread yourself on many hexes, because they're simply available - gives a lot of points at the end of the game.

But even in general, I would imagine, that entering other opponent hexes is risky business and probably rarely pays off. If you won previous fight, you better use those resources in that same or next turn. Otherwise, I would imagine, other players will rush to attack you in turn, since you made yourself weak last turn - an easy star to get. You won't have time to use these resources or take them away.

But maybe it's just groupthink / tunnel vision at this point.

Anyway, not complaining, was just genuinely curious. After all it's better for the game to have such option, than to not have it


So you've played once, ask a question get a number of great responses and then come back and say you're unconvinced. shake <sigh>
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Why is that so hard to accept? Did you notice that most if not all of these responses were about games with more players and I was talking about 2p?
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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Like Alan stated earlier: it depends on the situation.

A lot of my games have been 2p, and for my part moving resources has been rare. However, my opponent doesn't always watch out for where his are. I've popped up near his stashes using Wayfare, Submerge, etc. Now he suddenly finds a high priority need to move resources.
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Matthias Reitberger
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Player count doesn't really matter and it's not about resources you gained by attacking, because you can't move them anyway in the same round.
In the early game having all your workers out and massing them on two hexes is very effective. You can produce for maybe 3 consecutive bottom row actions. If one of them is linked to move you may abandon a hex completly to let your workers produce something else after you spend those resources. To keep control of the resources you have to carry them with you.
 
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Aaron Silverman
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rattkin wrote:
These are all good answers. That said, I remain unconvinced, at least when it comes to 2p game. Maybe when it's more crowded, it makes more sense. In 2p game, it would seem to me, that you:

a) won't going to amass resources, as you will spend them more quickly. Truth be told I'm not sure how amassing resources is good anyway. Seems to me like kicking yourself out of tempo.
b) won't be threatened by attacks from different directions
c) will spread yourself on many hexes, because they're simply available - gives a lot of points at the end of the game.

But even in general, I would imagine, that entering other opponent hexes is risky business and probably rarely pays off. If you won previous fight, you better use those resources in that same or next turn. Otherwise, I would imagine, other players will rush to attack you in turn, since you made yourself weak last turn - an easy star to get. You won't have time to use these resources or take them away.

But maybe it's just groupthink / tunnel vision at this point.

Anyway, not complaining, was just genuinely curious. After all it's better for the game to have such option, than to not have it


Maybe if you had specified up front that you had only played with 2 players, the answers would have been more applicable. It makes sense that there would be more reason to move your resources out of a dangerous location when there are more opponents threatening them on the map.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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I wanted to learn all the possible usages, suspecting that 2p game might be slightly different in this case. No problem with that, I like the answers. I just didn't feel the need to use the feature in my game and was wondering that maybe we weren't playing optimally in 2p game. Either we weren't or resource moving in 2p game manifests itself less often.
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Chris Edwards
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I've played a bunch of times, mostly 2-player or 3-player. I rarely think of resource movement in terms of the resources themselves, for example, "I need to get these resources moved to a safe location."

Much more common thoughts that I might have:
"I'm moving all of the units out of this hex that has resources. I'll move the resources too, otherwise I don't have control over them."
"I'm moving some of the units out of this hex that has resources. I'll move about half of the resources so I don't leave an easy target for my opponent(s)."

I also think about where I put the resources to begin with. If I get resources from the Trade action, I'll put them on the space that is hardest for my opponent(s) to reach.

Just because you didn't feel the need to move resources in your first game, it doesn't mean you're doing anything "wrong." You probably were not playing 100% optimally, but that's not the same as being "wrong." If you play more, you might find lots of little ways to optimize your strategies, and those things will vary depending on the situation.

As other people have pointed out, it's not always feasible to spend your resources the same turn or the turn after you get them. If you make that your primary goal every turn, you will surely neglect a lot of alternatives that are more optimal.

I don't think you need to worry about categorizing all of the possible reasons to move resources. Just play the game more, and the reasons will emerge on their own, whenever they are relevant!
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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weasel47 wrote:

Just because you didn't feel the need to move resources in your first game, it doesn't mean you're doing anything "wrong." You probably were not playing 100% optimally, but that's not the same as being "wrong."


I got close to 110 points in first game. Granted, my opponent wasn't bent on disrupting me, but still. Is that high or low? I just never felt like I have to move my workers, once they're on the hexes I want them to be. I've moved them a bit, sure, but never with resources, as there were either no resources to move or the hex already had a building of mine, which meant I controlled it anyway. Oh well, we'll see next game.
 
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Alex G
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A lot of times in my games I've seen people move a mech with a large group of workers through different tiles, producing on each one and moving with the resources in tow.
 
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Chris Edwards
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rattkin wrote:
I got close to 110 points in first game. Granted, my opponent wasn't bent on disrupting me, but still. Is that high or low? I just never felt like I have to move my workers, once they're on the hexes I want them to be. I've moved them a bit, sure, but never with resources, as there were either no resources to move or the hex already had a building of mine, which meant I controlled it anyway. Oh well, we'll see next game.


That is a high score. That doesn't mean you've mastered the game, though!

The first few times I played, we were hesitant to initiate combat. Once we became less hesitant, scores that high became rare. I suspect you would have been vulnerable to attack against a more experienced player, and also vulnerable to the game ending sooner than you expected.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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I was vulnerable to an attack. In fact, I've lost twice and my opponent got 2 stars for that, while I ended the game with 0 stars in combat.
 
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