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Legendary: Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: New Generation of Hydras rss

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Adam Steele
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Patriot's cards do not specify Hydra like Zombie Madame Hydra does. I think it's pretty broken if it's supposed to be able to work with Hydra starters, as happened in a game I played today. Technically, because they only specify S.H.I.E.L.D., they should get a bonus for Hydra, but I'd basically rule for game balance that it wouldn't. Am I out of line on any of this?
 
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Ryan
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Well, you're right that we need an official ruling. Either they forgot to add Hydra, thought it didn't fit thematically to mention them on a Hero, or Hydra counts towards Patriot.

I play a house rule of Hydra = Shield. For Thematic reasons, you can think of it as the "Winter Soldier variant" where Hydra infiltrated Shield. There isn't enough Hydra to make this problematic. And it's easier since I have the base Villain set instead of the Hero set haha
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Jesse Lyons
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The rules for Fear Itself state that HYDRA and SHIELD are the same affiliation.
 
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Matt O
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I just re-read the Fear Itself rules and I'm pretty sure they're only considered equal if you aren't playing both base games together. If you are using contents from both the Villains sets and the Heroes sets they're treated separate.

The way I've been playing since mixing both sets is you pick your starting team (shield or hydra) based on what heroes you're playing. So if you have a hero like Patriot and Nick Fury that deals with Shield cards you definitely want to start with Shield cards. If you're playing and have a character like Ultron or Green Goblin that have effect dealing with Hydra cards you should probably start with Hydra cards. Again, this is assuming you're combining both heroes and villains sets and have the option to start with either shield or hydra.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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jestergoblin wrote:
The rules for Fear Itself state that HYDRA and SHIELD are the same affiliation.


Fear Itself says "If you don't have the Villains set and are using the original Heroic Marvel Legendary set instead, here's what to do... If a card mentions or is part of the HYDRA team, use the S.H.I.E.L.D. team instead."

So they just put that in there for people that don't have HYDRA starters, which would suck for the Fear Itself cards that power up from HYDRA affiliated cards.

In general, if you do own both sets, you're not supposed to just count HYDRA and SHIELD as equivalent all the time.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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So I think you're asking about Patriot's cards that say things like, "You get +1 Fight for each Hero Name among your non-SHIELD Heroes," right? So if someone is playing with SHIELD starters, they wouldn't get any bonuses for the SHIELD starters in their hands. But if they are playing with HYDRA starters, they would.

I don't know anything about the Patriot character, but are they saying thematically that Patriot has something against SHIELD and that he's not as powerful when he's around them? My first thought upon seeing the cards was that he's more powerful when he's around a variety of different heroes and that's why he gets bonuses for having different Hero Names in the player's hand. And I thought they added that "non-SHIELD" clause in just to make sure that you couldn't use your starter cards to power him up. In that case, I wish they had said something more like, "... among your non-Starter Heroes."

But if, thematically, it does have more to do with Patriot being against SHIELD, then it would make sense for him to be more powerful with a group of Hydra cards in the player's hand.
 
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Jeffrey
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I know nothing about Patriot, but I assume "each Hero Name among your non-SHIELD Heroes" is to "each Hero Name among your Heroes" as Captain America's "class" is to "color" (which his older cards looked for). That is, Patriot counts different heroes as opposed to Cap counting colors, and like the newer Caps, Patriot doesn't want to count starters. I think this was the best way they could come up with to express that concept. The two downsides being it doesn't address the Villains starters, and it excludes Steve Rogers, Director of SHIELD, Nick Fury, etc.

I'd have probably gone with "non-zero cost Heroes".

That's all assuming that it isn't a thematic thing against SHIELD.
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Berney P.
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I don't think "Ally" is a Hero Name, and that's what appears on the starters. I think Madame Hydra (and Skadi if you have Villains) do count towards Patriot.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Yenreb wrote:
I don't think "Ally" is a Hero Name, and that's what appears on the starters. I think Madame Hydra (and Skadi if you have Villains) do count towards Patriot.


Actually, both of the HYDRA starter cards have "Ally" as their Ally/Hero Name. So I would say, if anything, any number of HYDRA starter cards in your hands would only give you +1 toward the total bonus.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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BTW, Madame HYDRA and New Recruits also have a Hero/Ally Name of "Ally". So I think if you had a handful of HYDRA starters, Madame Hydras, and New Recruits, you would only get +1, because they all have the same Ally/Hero Name.
 
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Cooper Christian
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Madam Hydra is named Viper like SHIELD Officer is named Maria Hill
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Sorry, you're right. I need glasses. So she would give Patriot another +1. But New Recruits does have a Hero/Ally Name of "Ally".
 
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Nathan McKeehan
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I have both bases and every expansion but Civil War (it hasn't shown up at my FLGS yet). My SHIELD starters are worn out (we played quite a lot before I sleeved them) so I often use the Hydra starters instead. I play them interchangeably unless I have heroes that call for both in the game (e.g. Nick Fury and Ultron) and then we have a discussion on which starters or combination of starters to use.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I like the challenge of sometimes having mismatched starters with heroes. I just played a game with HYDRA starters and Nick Fury. Nick was much less effective without his SHIELD buddies, so it really ramped up the difficulty of the game.
 
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Josh Worley
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I think the intent was to include the HYDRA logo on it along with the SHIELD logo. Look at Old Man Logan's rare from SWv1, it shows both icons.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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swirlsaepi wrote:
I think the intent was to include the HYDRA logo on it along with the SHIELD logo. Look at Old Man Logan's rare from SWv1, it shows both icons.


You mean that Patriot's cards should have said things like, "You get +1 Fight for each Hero Name among your non-SHIELD and non-HYDRA Heroes."?
 
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