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Legendary: Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Reveal Split Heroes' Secret Identities rss

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Adam Steele
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Wisconsin
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For the scheme Reveal Heroes' Secret Identities, how does it treat split cards? My friend believes himself clever in that you can name one half of a split card, and leave the other half's name unaffected. I claim that the entire card is affected, so both names are hit. For example, if a Storm & Black Panther card is unmasked, all cards for that group are unmasked, as well as the regular Storm cards and the regular Black Panther cards. If Patriot's split card is unmasked, regular Hawkeye would also be unmasked (even though they're clearly different characters, they share the same name). Of course, this means you are not at all motivated to ever name a split card, since this always results in 2 heroes getting unmasked (though it does make a hilarious observation that you could skip from 4 to 6 this way... which I say still should result in a loss).
Any views on this conundrum?
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David A
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I don't have the rules sheet in front of me to see if it addresses this issue, but my thoughts are along the same line as your friend. Many of the Divided cards are like you pointed out and have 2 different characters on it. The Scheme calls for Unmasking *A* hero (singular), not a card.
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François Deslauriers
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What If all the Heroes in the HQ are a already Unmasked? Do I Skip this Scheme Twist resolution?
 
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Adelin Dumitru
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yes, you would skip the resolution of that scheme twist. i think that it is ome of those schemes where you have to stop tecruiting after a while,if you wanna beat the scheme
 
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Matt O
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I feel like for Storm/BP and for Cloak/Dagger you should treat their hero name in this case as one name as it does on their rare card. So "Storm & Black Panther" is a different thing than the individual Storm and Panther cards. Thematically this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but gameplay wise I think it's best.

Cloak and Dagger don't have the issue of having individual versions of themselves from other sets, so for unmasking purpose I would just treat them as one hero.

For other characters that have only have one split card the rules state that when setting up and sorting cards you sort using the left side of the card. So the Patriot/Hawkeye card is a "Patriot" card for sorting purposes. I would play the scheme with that logic. When you're unmasking a split card it unmasks the character that the split card came from. I would consider this especially true in your Hawkeye example since the Hawkeye on Patriot's card and the Hawkeye from the base game aren't even the same person.

Alternatively, the game designers could have done this purposely to increase difficulty so that unmasking a split card essentially unmasks two heroes and speeds up your defeat.

Questions come up again when you consider the fact that there are two characters name "Wolverine".

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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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Organous wrote:
For the scheme Reveal Heroes' Secret Identities, how does it treat split cards? My friend believes himself clever in that you can name one half of a split card

The rules say that divided cards cost the same and that you set them up based on the main set hero and flat out say it's *one* card that you draw.



So I can't see their intention being that you could suddenly buy Jessica Jones for less than Luke Cage. Nothing says you actually pick a name when you decide to buy a card either.


So yeah, I'd say your friend is seriously wrong here.




What's more bothersome here is the issue with repeated character names. Is Wolverine (X-men) affected by Wolverine (X-force)?
Do either of them affect Old man Logan?

For stuff like Cross dimensional they do, but here they don't?

What about Thor and Lady Thor?

I have a feeling this is going to be a major headache and figured this would be a problem the moment they released the scheme. How is this not in the rules?

 
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Michael Green
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so the scheme cards says:

Quote:
Twists: Put a Hero from the HQ next to the Scheme as an "Unmasked" Hero. All cards with "Unmasked" Hero Names cost +1 Recruit to Recruit. You can't Unmask a Hero Name that has already been Unmasked.
Evil Wins: When 5 Heroes are unmasked.


The Hero Name is the piece of text underneath the Card Name. In most cases this is unique to the 14-card Hero deck so there is no ambiguity. Cards from that Hero deck will cost 1 more to recruit for the rest of the game, and can't be unmasked again. So if a Twist occurs when the HQ is full of Heroes that are already unmasked, no one else is unmasked.

For divided cards, the cards may have two Hero names. The rules state that these cards count as having all characteristics of both cards while in the HQ or in your hand. Only when they are played do you choose one or the other. If a divided card is chosen to be "unmasked" I would say both Hero Names should cost +1 to Recruit, and the whole 14-card Hero deck will have that extra cost for the rest of the game.

There are some occasional instances where the Hero Name is not unique to the 14-card Hero deck. I think Wolverine from the base set and Wolverine from Dark City have the same Hero Name for example, as do Marvel Knights Daredevil and Avengers Daredevil. In these instances, I would say Unmasking either one of these Heroes, applies the extra recruit to both, the other Hero can no longer be unmasked (as you can't unmask a Hero Name that has already been unmasked), but only one 'Hero' has been unmasked in terms of the Evil Wins condition.

Similarly, one of Avengers Daredevil's divided cards has Iron Fist on the right hand side. If this was in a game with Dark City Iron Fist I would play as follows:

If Dark City Iron Fist is unmasked, all his 14 cards plus the Divided card, cost more to recruit (as they count as having both Hero Names while in the HQ). I can no longer select the Divided cards for further unmasking. Only one 'Hero' has been unmasked.

If the Divided Card is unmasked, all Daredevil's 14 cards and all Iron Fist's 14 cards now cost more to recruit and neither is available for further unmasking. This part is a little ambiguous but I would suggest that in this instance two 'Heroes' have been unmasked.

I think this rather complicated mess is how I would read the rules as written. I would nevertheless be tempted to play the much simpler rules-as-probably-intended, and just limit the effects of unmasking a card to the 14-card Hero deck it came from, apply it to all of that deck, and count that as one 'Hero' for the evil wins condition.
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David A
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Remember when Upper Deck would be in here and provide clarifications on things like this? Yeah.....good times.
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Sherri Fillingham
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They may still be trying to get home from Gen Con. If they were on Delta, they're still sitting in an airport somewhere. whistle
 
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Bruce Scroggin
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I agree with your friend. You are unmasking a HERO, not a card or a hero deck. So if Dagger is unmasked, thematically Cloak could remain masked because he is his own individual hero and has not been caught/exposed. So in this scheme having divided cards works to your advantage. However, having multiple heroes with the same name could hurt you. So if you are playing with base set Storm and Civil War Storm, she is the same individual so all cards with Storm are unmasked. The only instance in which I would not do this is when another individual takes up the mantle/becomes the same hero. So if Captain America is unmasked, I would not count Captain America (Falcon) as unmasked because Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson are different individuals.
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Davy Ashleydale
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For ease of play, I think I'm on board with just thinking of "Hero" as "14-card set". I'm even leaning toward considering the two Wolverines to be different Heroes for this purpose.

Until I hear otherwise in an FAQ or errata, I'll probably play this Scheme as if it said:

Twists: Put a Hero from the HQ next to the Scheme as an "Unmasked" Hero. All cards from the same 14-card set as "Unmasked" Heroes cost +1 Recruit to Recruit. You can't Unmask a Hero Name that has already been Unmasked.

Evil Wins: When Heroes from 5 different 14-card sets are unmasked.
 
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Mark Shaunessy

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Point 5 of Divided Cards on the rules sheet says:

While a Divided Card is in your hand or the HQ, it counts as all Hero Classes, Teams and Hero Names.
 
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Michael Green
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Mark UD OP wrote:
Point 5 of Divided Cards on the rules sheet says:

While a Divided Card is in your hand or the HQ, it counts as all Hero Classes, Teams and Hero Names.


Would that also apply when it's stacked next to the scheme?
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Davy Ashleydale
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dontfeedthegreen wrote:
Mark UD OP wrote:
Point 5 of Divided Cards on the rules sheet says:

While a Divided Card is in your hand or the HQ, it counts as all Hero Classes, Teams and Hero Names.


Would that also apply when it's stacked next to the scheme?


Not necessarily, but it's certainly a good clue.
 
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Dan Harrow
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Does the scheme add additional heroes to the Hero deck?

If it does not, and the Scheme's success condition is that five heroes are unmasked, then the intention is clearly to treat each of the five 14-card hero "decks" that you shuffled into the Hero deck to start the game as a separate "hero" for this scheme, regardless of actual name.

This is most apparent in the scenario offered above where someone treated Wolverine (X-Men) and Wolverine (X-Force) as the same hero. The scheme can't ever unmask five heroes if you're treating two of your five as the same hero.
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Mark Shaunessy

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XeyneGaming wrote:
Does the scheme add additional heroes to the Hero deck?

If it does not, and the Scheme's success condition is that five heroes are unmasked, then the intention is clearly to treat each of the five 14-card hero "decks" that you shuffled into the Hero deck to start the game as a separate "hero" for this scheme, regardless of actual name.

This is most apparent in the scenario offered above where someone treated Wolverine (X-Men) and Wolverine (X-Force) as the same hero. The scheme can't ever unmask five heroes if you're treating two of your five as the same hero.


In the Core rule book it says during setup to pick 5 heroes. Each Hero has a 14 card deck. Since Wolverine (X-Men) and Wolverine (X-Force) have their own 14 card decks they are 2 different heroes.
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And therefore decks Divided cards only ever count as one hero, including Luke Cage/Jessica Jones and Cloak and Dagger, right?

The Hero name for the purposes of the scheme is not Jessica Jones (or Aunt May) but Luke Cage and Peter Parker, respectively, right?

Or did I get that all wrong?
 
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Brandon Gilbert
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I think you can play either way depending on desired difficulty, but I believe the meaning of the twist is the 14-card deck it came from.

Your first argument brings up another conflict though, is Storm/Black Panther the same as Storm&Black Panther? Since their ultimate card isn't a divided card it's card name is technically different just like Cloak & Dagger.
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Brandon Gilbert
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TheUbiquitous wrote:
And therefore decks Divided cards only ever count as one hero, including Luke Cage/Jessica Jones and Cloak and Dagger, right?

The Hero name for the purposes of the scheme is not Jessica Jones (or Aunt May) but Luke Cage and Peter Parker, respectively, right?

Or did I get that all wrong?


There is a spot in the rules that does say something about a divided card being the right side, so you can't go an unmask aunt May
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Joe Andrews
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XeyneGaming wrote:
Does the scheme add additional heroes to the Hero deck?


The scheme has you put 7 heroes into the hero deck
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Berney P.
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I agree with Michael Green's interpretation of the rules as written, although I'm left wondering whether this means "Storm & Black Panther" and "Cloak & Dagger" are separate hero names from Storm/Black Panther and Cloak/Dagger. This matters not only for this scheme but the "Purged from the Time Stream" scheme from 75, and Patriot's cards as well.
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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Right, if there were a card effect that said, "+1 Fight for each card with Hero Name 'Cloak' you've played this turn," would a card with Hero Name "Cloak & Dagger" count toward that total?
 
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Rachael
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randomlife wrote:
Right, if there were a card effect that said, "+1 Fight for each card with Hero Name 'Cloak' you've played this turn," would a card with Hero Name "Cloak & Dagger" count toward that total?


Cloak is a name, Dagger is a name, and Cloak & Dagger is both names on one card. So in your example, yes, Cloak & Dagger counts for Cloak.

In non-hypothetical cards, Patriot gets +1 for every Hero name among your non-SHIELD cards and his rare lets you reveal three cards and draw them if there's at least three hero names among them. So if you have a Cloak/Dagger divided card in the reveal, that's two hero names. If you also have the Cloak & Dagger rare, is that a third name? I'd say no.

Derail, but related for Patriot:
What are the hero names of the Special Sidekicks? Thematically, they are all their different name so if you have two different special sidekicks, that would be +2 on Patriot's cards. Based on typical card layout style, the hero name is "Special Sidekick" and each individual's name is the card name, so no matter how many different Spcial Sidekicks you have, it would be +1 for Patriot.
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Davy Ashleydale
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Here's what I wish: The Divided Cards had one "Hero Name" at the top -- "Cloak & Dagger" -- for all 14 of the cards, but two different "Names" for the divided parts, instead of a different "Hero Name" for each side of the divided cards. That would clear this question right up.
 
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Mark Shaunessy

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For Patriot - Divided Cards count as both Hero names while it is in your hand. Once played it only counts as the side you've played.

The Rare Cloak & Dagger and Storm & Black Panther (which are not Divided Cards) count as both Heroes in your hand and after you've played them.
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