CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
See, the wife started out not a gamer. I mean, a little backgammon and chess, but just for something cute to do. She was down with a card game now and then, but that's it. Then somewhen in our marriage I got her to try Catan. She thought it was fun. Then we started to get games to play with the kid. (Yes, Munchkin, we did play Munchkin. Deal with it.) Then we both tried Agricola, stumbling through it, and then liking it. A few years ago Terra Mystica (she liked) and Eclipse (she didn't). The pivot was Innovation. We loved playing that game. A lot.

This year's been heavy duty. Some of the games played were: The Gallerist (she liked), Madeira (kinda liked), Food Chain Magnate (she liked), CO2, this weekend (liked a lot). She's still not exactly a gamer. Nor will she ever be. She doesn't search for new titles online. She doesn't ask me what I'm buying next. More likely, she rolls her eyes when a new game comes into our already crowded apartment. She's never ever going to be on BGG. However, she's become a regular gaming partner, which is great fun for us both. And her preference in games is medium heavy to heavy Euros, usually with a good dollop of theme. (I play Ameritrash with the kid; medium light games with friends and family.)

I just got such a kick playing CO2 with her this weekend. We totally messed up the rules the first time. (They are, er, not the best written rules ever. This must be why she won that first time.) We both had fun and were down for another game the next day. Boom, grinding grudge fest, fighting for every point. I managed to squeak out a victory with an expertise tiebreaker that gained me control of North America. My non gamer wife said "I really liked that, it was a lot of fun!"

I be one lucky dude. CO2 is awesome.
(Oh, and the wife's ok too.)
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle
Canada
Toronto
flag msg tools
Show me something that beats a natural 20 and I'll show you hateful lies.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I still need to try Vital's 'dud*', this is encouraging

*This one seems to garner the most hate for some reason, and is very polarizing, could be as 'semi-coops' or as I prefer to think competitive games with mutual fail potential seem to go over badly around these parts.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darthain wrote:
I still need to try Vital's 'dud*', this is encouraging

*This one seems to garner the most hate for some reason, and is very polarizing, could be as 'semi-coops' or as I prefer to think competitive games with mutual fail potential seem to go over badly around these parts.

There are some problems with the game that I can see.

First, the rules are a problem. They are far from awful (I've read awful!) but they pack so much into a relatively short amount of space that it's easy to miss some stuff. There are also two moderately important points that are completely unclear from the rules (the difference between bumping another player's scientist and having to "free" move your own scientist when a project becomes a power plant; and the fact that all players score income on the last turn). I wasn't bothered, and 15 minutes on BGG got me the answers I needed, but I can understand some folks being grumpy.

Next, the game IS fiddly. For example,there are 3 stages to building a green power plant and each one has its own special steps. It's easy to forget, for example, that you get to bump your expertise in a science area after you build a plant of that type (because you're busy moving your scientist off the proposal chit, taking away the proposal chit, placing the power plant chit, putting your control marker on the power plant, paying the cost in money and technology cubes, remembering to check to see if this has given you control of a region, whew!).

My wife and I found this a little stressful but it did not impeded our enjoyment. It just made us all the more determined to conquer the game, and beat each other. We are, however, reasonably friendly gamers. Neither one of us was going to let the other forget to mark something that needed marking if we could help it.

The semi coop aspect hasn't seemed to be a problem. For one thing, it's not THAT hard to keep the world from going under. I mean, if you put no effort into it, yeah, you all go boom. Now that said, I can see how, as we play more, we might focus more and more on increasing our score, to the detriment of the planet. There's a kinda chicken effect, can I do one more non earth saving thing and not destroy the planet? Also, we focussed a lot on building stuff when the game probably encourages more effort on profitable proprietary research. However, if we do too much of that next game...BOOM! On the other hand, you have a strong reason to save the planet because you can't really be sure you're not already winning (there are secret bonus victory points). This helps.

Finally, there's the theme. Some people just don't find it appealing. Some of those, for political/ideological reasons. I mean, look at the ratings. Fourteen people rate it a ONE, saying it's essentially broken, which is just silly. The game works just fine as a game, although I can see it not being everyone's cup o tea. Of those 14, 3 left comments, and all those comments cite political/ideological reasons for panning the game ("There is no way getting the Jack boot of leftist ideology crammed down my throat would constitute entertainment."). So yeah, if you believe global warming is a hoax, then you might not like it.

Of Lacerda's games, I've only played this and The Gallerist. Of those two, I think the Gallerist is the better game, but this might be easier to get to the table (less setup time, shorter game). We're certainly both eager to play it again.

EDIT: While CO2 has a few issues, the only problem with the wife is that she doesn't like (hates!) Galaxy Trucker. Still, I think I won't trade her in.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle
Canada
Toronto
flag msg tools
Show me something that beats a natural 20 and I'll show you hateful lies.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bad rules are always bad, the Kanban rules are also quite bad, but Vital has his nearly complete geeklist here (which is much better). Fiddly is variant, but generally something to be avoided.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darthain wrote:
Bad rules are always bad, the Kanban rules are also quite bad, but Vital has his nearly complete geeklist here (which is much better). Fiddly is variant, but generally something to be avoided.

Bu don't you think The Gallerist is crazy fiddly? And its rules have some of the same density issues.

Again, I don't think CO2s are bad, as in the really bad rules I've had to read. Honestly, I think Agricola's rules are worse (have they been rewritten in later versions?). I find the iOS Agricola's rules so much easier to use, a lesson to Uwe. CO2 just has some issues. You have to be prepared to spend a bit of time on BGG.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Belvidere
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From your description, I'm pretty sure she is a gamer. Maybe not as hardcore as most, but definitely a gamer.

And yes, you are a lucky dude.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Netherlands
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
This post makes me smile....

My hubby complains over all my games but he's been picking up more X-Wing ships than me lately

Funny at our camping recently, he was the one taking some of fillers over to the "neighbors" in the evening while I put our daughter to bed... He also finally played Star Realms with me during our vacation and he's not a deck buider fan but he liked this ...

So, I've decided to keep him too
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle
Canada
Toronto
flag msg tools
Show me something that beats a natural 20 and I'll show you hateful lies.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skutsch wrote:
darthain wrote:
Bad rules are always bad, the Kanban rules are also quite bad, but Vital has his nearly complete geeklist here (which is much better). Fiddly is variant, but generally something to be avoided.

Bu don't you think The Gallerist is crazy fiddly? And its rules have some of the same density issues.

Again, I don't think CO2s are bad, as in the really bad rules I've had to read. Honestly, I think Agricola's rules are worse (have they been rewritten in later versions?). I find the iOS Agricola's rules so much easier to use, a lesson to Uwe. CO2 just has some issues. You have to be prepared to spend a bit of time on BGG.


No, I find things like eclipse and FCM terribly fiddly though. It had something to do with compartmentalization (how's that for a five dollar word). I don't consider the gallerist, or even through the ages to be 'fiddly' somehow. For the gallerist I think it is because of A clarity of information and B it is highly segmented, you only do small combinations of things on a given turn, maybe 3-4 movements.

Gallerist rulebook was excellent I thought. Kanban tried to write in the time of the factory manager and it list clarity because of it. Panamax,madeira, kanban, those are bad rulebooks. Ashes too (due to all kinds of left out info to make it 'accessible').


But if this thread is evolving into bragging about partners my wife had been playing Armada with me lately, after bouts of sekigahara, the gallerist, through the ages, and a while lot of battleline (that game is absolutely excellent, more card game than anything ride)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darthain wrote:
But if this thread is evolving into bragging about partners my wife had been playing Armada with me lately, after bouts of sekigahara, the gallerist, through the ages, and a while lot of battleline (that game is absolutely excellent, more card game than anything ride)

Ah rub it it. My lovely wife does not, mostly, like games with conflict. One exception is Innovation, where she doesn't mind that games crazy nasty card play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle
Canada
Toronto
flag msg tools
Show me something that beats a natural 20 and I'll show you hateful lies.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skutsch wrote:
darthain wrote:
But if this thread is evolving into bragging about partners my wife had been playing Armada with me lately, after bouts of sekigahara, the gallerist, through the ages, and a while lot of battleline (that game is absolutely excellent, more card game than anything ride)

Ah rub it it. My lovely wife does not, mostly, like games with conflict. One exception is Innovation, where she doesn't mind that games crazy nasty card play.


Innovation was a flop for us. Impulse would be my choice for a dose of Chud.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Don't you think great is a bit of an overstatement? "Lots of fun", sure! Very beautiful and I love all the bits, yes. And I probably won't say no to an offer to play, but is that really enough to call your wife great?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darthain wrote:
skutsch wrote:
darthain wrote:
But if this thread is evolving into bragging about partners my wife had been playing Armada with me lately, after bouts of sekigahara, the gallerist, through the ages, and a while lot of battleline (that game is absolutely excellent, more card game than anything ride)

Ah rub it it. My lovely wife does not, mostly, like games with conflict. One exception is Innovation, where she doesn't mind that games crazy nasty card play.


Innovation was a flop for us. Impulse would be my choice for a dose of Chud.

I did not like that game. Felt as dry as Sahara sand.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
Don't you think great is a bit of an overstatement? "Lots of fun", sure! Very beautiful and I love all the bits, yes. And I probably won't say no to an offer to play, but is that really enough to call your wife great?

I'm not calling my wife great because she liked CO2. That would be shallow of me. I'm calling her great because she likes CO2, Agricola, The Gallerist, Innovation, and Terra Mystica.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.