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Subject: Question on transporting workers rss

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Dan Buckley
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I've tried to keep up with threads here so hopefully this hasn't already been answered!

When transporting workers with a mech, if you don't explicitly drop them off do the workers immediately enter the territory the mech is in at the end of its move or are they considered to be inside the mech until you say otherwise?

The specific example of when this matters is when a mech that can enter lake territories transports workers and ends its turn on a lake. What happens to the workers? My group decided the workers had to stay in the territory before the lake because we couldn't quickly find anything to cover this in the rules but people on here have talked about the same situation where their workers end up on the lake territory. The rules don't seem to have left anything else unexplained so it's likely I've just missed the appropriate section. Can someone point me in the right direction?
 
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Philip Morton
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There is no game mechanic for "inside the mech". Mechs just drag workers with them. If a mech drags some workers into a lake, they (and any resources that also got dragged) are in the lake territory. There's one special rule related to lakes about not being allowed to abandon resources or workers in lakes, but that's only checked when you go to move the mech away.

Not knowing what you think "inside the mech" means mechanically I'm not sure what difference you think it would make whether they're inside the lake or inside the territory. If one lake-capable faction attacks another while there are workers in the lake and wins, the attacker will still lose popularity for forcing workers to retreat, if that's the question.
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Joshua Ryan
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The workers follow the mech onto the lake, but they cannot be left there, cannot produce resources there (but lakes don't produce anything anway), and they don't count toward area control.

They pretty much just hang out inside the mech looking out the port holes and vents, hoping they get moved to dry land soon.

Edit: whoops! My bad. blush
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Lori MacKenzie
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dannycarnage wrote:

When transporting workers with a mech, if you don't explicitly drop them off do the workers immediately enter the territory the mech is in at the end of its move or are they considered to be inside the mech until you say otherwise?

The specific example of when this matters is when a mech that can enter lake territories transports workers and ends its turn on a lake. What happens to the workers? My group decided the workers had to stay in the territory before the lake because we couldn't quickly find anything to cover this in the rules but people on here have talked about the same situation where their workers end up on the lake territory.


You actually played it wrong. If a mech picks up workers, they are carried along until you purposely leave them behind on a hex. That means they are able to be transported onto lakes but never left there alone. In a battle loss they would retreat with the mechs, causing the normal loss in popularity to the attacker.

ninja I guess we're all in agreement on that!
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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evnzro wrote:
The workers follow the mech onto the lake, but they cannot be left there, cannot produce resources there (but lakes don't produce anything anway), and they don't count toward area control.


Page 29 of the Rules, Scoring Categories:

Every Territory Controlled: Gains coins for every territory you control (including lakes).

Let's try not to confuse people in the rules forums by giving them incorrect info...
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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dannycarnage wrote:
The specific example of when this matters is when a mech that can enter lake territories transports workers and ends its turn on a lake. What happens to the workers? My group decided the workers had to stay in the territory before the lake because we couldn't quickly find anything to cover this in the rules but people on here have talked about the same situation where their workers end up on the lake territory. The rules don't seem to have left anything else unexplained so it's likely I've just missed the appropriate section. Can someone point me in the right direction?


This is answered on Page 16, in the Seaworthy section and the Submerge section, for future reference.

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Dan Buckley
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Thanks everyone that's really useful. I figured I'd missed the appropriate part of the rules so thanks for pointing me towards it and clarifying for me.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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dannycarnage wrote:
Thanks everyone that's really useful. I figured I'd missed the appropriate part of the rules so thanks for pointing me towards it and clarifying for me.


No problem!
 
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Barry Miller
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
Quote:
The workers follow the mech onto the lake, but they cannot be left there, cannot produce resources there (but lakes don't produce anything anway), and they don't count toward area control.


Page 29 of the Rules, Scoring Categories:

Every Territory Controlled: Gains coins for every territory you control (including lakes).

Let's try not to confuse people in the rules forums by giving them incorrect info...


This is exactly why I'm a huge proponent of people always including a rulebook citation with every reply to a rules question.

But I get flamed for having that attitude. So be it.

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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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bgm1961 wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
Quote:
The workers follow the mech onto the lake, but they cannot be left there, cannot produce resources there (but lakes don't produce anything anway), and they don't count toward area control.


Page 29 of the Rules, Scoring Categories:

Every Territory Controlled: Gains coins for every territory you control (including lakes).

Let's try not to confuse people in the rules forums by giving them incorrect info...


This is exactly why I'm a huge proponent of people always including a rulebook citation with every reply to a rules question.

But I get flamed for having that attitude. So be it.



Not flamed by me, that is for sure. I try to include a rulebook reference (or link to an answer by the designer) whenever I answer a question. Makes for accuracy and ease of confirmation for those who don't trust strangers on the internet.
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Hisham Masri
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Rather than make a new post, I feel my question is appropriate here:

1. First, can my Mech transports a worker into a hex with an opponents mech?
2. If so, second, if I proceed to lose the combat in that hex with my opponents mech, does my opponent (the defending player) lose popularity?
3. Third, and for sake of completeness, if I am successful in the combat with my opponents Mech and he has workers in that hex, then I would lose popularity?

For example, what if in the Example on Page 23 of the Rule Book that John lost that battle with the two workers? Would Sandra have lost 2 popularity as the winner in that battle?

My main point of confusion is this: Workers cannot move into a hex that has opponents units alone. But if Workers move into a hex with an opponents Mech with my Mech, and then I lose the battle, does my opponent lose popularity for that?

Maybe this should be its own post after much reflection....
 
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Trevor Schadt
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CorpusJurist wrote:
1. First, can my Mech transports a worker into a hex with an opponents mech?
Yes. This is a favored Rusviet tactic once they have the People's Army mech.
CorpusJurist wrote:
2. If so, second, if I proceed to lose the combat in that hex with my opponents mech, does my opponent (the defending player) lose popularity?
No. Only attackers lose popularity for displaced workers. This is clearly stated in the rules.
CorpusJurist wrote:
3. Third, and for sake of completeness, if I am successful in the combat with my opponents Mech and he has workers in that hex, then I would lose popularity?
Yes. You were the attacker, you displaced the other player's workers, therefore you lose popularity. (Unless you are Polania and have built the Camaraderie mech.)
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David Taranto
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CorpusJurist wrote:
Rather than make a new post, I feel my question is appropriate here:

1. First, can my Mech transports a worker into a hex with an opponents mech?
2. If so, second, if I proceed to lose the combat in that hex with my opponents mech, does my opponent (the defending player) lose popularity?
3. Third, and for sake of completeness, if I am successful in the combat with my opponents Mech and he has workers in that hex, then I would lose popularity?

For example, what if in the Example on Page 23 of the Rule Book that John lost that battle with the two workers? Would Sandra have lost 2 popularity as the winner in that battle?

My main point of confusion is this: Workers cannot move into a hex that has opponents units alone. But if Workers move into a hex with an opponents Mech with my Mech, and then I lose the battle, does my opponent lose popularity for that?

Maybe this should be its own post after much reflection....


1) Yes. A mech may transport a worker (or several) into combat.

2) No, they do not. Popularity loss only occurs when workers are displaced from a defending hex that they were already in (in this scenario - your opponent's workers in the hex you attacked). If you invade someone else's territory, why should they lose popularity for keeping the status quo? Your workers can "complain" all they want, but it's just bluster because all of Europa knows it's their faction's own darn fault they got sent back in the first place!

3) Yes. You as the attacker have displaced enemy workers from a defending hex, so you would lose popularity.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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CorpusJurist wrote:
My main point of confusion is this: Workers cannot move into a hex that has opponents units alone. But if Workers move into a hex with an opponents Mech with my Mech, and then I lose the battle, does my opponent lose popularity for that?


For clarity - Rules page 23 Combat - Winner:

"If the winner was the attacker, they lose 1 popularity for each worker they forced to retreat by initiating and winning combat."

So only a winning attacker loses popularity, a winning defender does not.
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Hisham Masri
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That was fast and efficient! Thank you all for your responses. I apparently could not find that clarification prior in the rule book.
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