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Subject: Do you think we'll see more games like KD:M rss

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Zen Man
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Do you think we'll see more games like KD:M?

Settlement/battle games. Or dark horror fantasy type games with an emphasis on boss battles and brutal combat (we've also seen a dark souls game)? Games that are brutally unforgiving? Games with a bigger emphasis on a scripted campaign type experience of getting you involved in story with characters (or in the case of KD:M a settlement trying to survive the darkness)?

But maybe I'm alone on this? Do you think KD:M will be the first of "its kind" or just remain its own niche thing? Will developers actually take heed? Have they taken heed? And if I'm behind the times, what games do you think are taking from KD:M now (or being developed)?
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Benj Davis
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I don't know, but I'm keen to find out.
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that Matt
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Honestly, no. Not any time soon. Though it surely depends on what you mean by "like KD:M."

Incidental themes and successful mechanics inspire new games all the time. But KD:M is a beast of a passion project, and it's still a miracle that it actually came to be this superb game. That's simply not replicable.

There are other super-enthusiastic and committed game designers with their own passion projects, of course, but they don't end up looking like KD:M in the ways you describe.
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Nathan Ehlers
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Really hard coops about killing monsters...there's a ton of those. The best example would be the original Doom game, which was more or less unwinable. For a less hopeless experience, Arkham Horror (and later Eldrich Horror) is a coop about amassing your team's strength so you can go off and fight a giant baddy (or, hopefully, cut them off at the pass).

Games where you get some kind of currency/xp and use it to level your dudes up in between sessions/missions/quests/whatever. Yep, too many to count. The one that comes up in comparison to KD:M a lot is Shadows of Brimstone. But you could go back to old school D&D for those essential concepts.

Games where you build a civilization, erecting structures to add benefits, making decisions about the disposition of your society with positive and negative trade offs...just search under the Civilization type sort here on bgg and you'll have a few thousand examples. The most recent I enjoy is FFG's SM Civ, which does a fantastic job of both emulating the video game and having you build a civilization. If you want a more localized kind of experience, then there's a whole lot of euro-y city builders that'll get the job done. Heck, even something like Troyes has you spend resources to access buildings which in turn give you more options and ways to spend resources.

Games where you read from a book to tell a narrative...that's kind of like what RPGs are, but in board game format, the grand daddy is certainly Tales of the Arabian Nights. More contemporary versions would be Agents of SMERSH or Above and Below. Or maybe, games where your campaign tells some big overarching story? I'd look no further than Fantasy Flight's Descent system. And if you don't like monsters and magic, then pick up Imperial Assault for Jedis and lasers.

Here's the things I think KD:M does which are truly original:

1. It's the only example of true horror in the board game genre. I mean this in a literary sense (or Phil of Art if you really want to get in the weeds). It doesn't bend over backwards to explain things. The story is told in allusion, and honestly, as much through the artwork as the prose. And most importantly, it doesn't treat the narrative elements with camp. Nearly every other board game that deals with a subject that's traditionally Horror, removes those qualities and adds humor, fantasy, or comedy. The Arkham Horror family maybe is the next best thing, but there's almost no real narrative there, so it's a distant, pale comparison. The best part (and I won't give it away here), is that it doesn't pull any punches, right up through the conclusion. It's through and through horror.
2. It manages to weave together both a storytelling game and a civilization building game. I don't know any example that does both of these things. Usually civ games are telling the story of your society as it rises and falls in the world at large. The story is historic. On the other hand, story telling games, usually focus on individual character feats and how they interact with a broader narrative. In KD:M, there's absolutely a story building throughout the events and you're experiencing that through the many generations of your society.

I will also throw props to KD:M as having the best monster fight system of any game I've played. There are lots of coops that use AI systems to have monsters antagonize the players, but I absolutely love the arena fights in KD:M. Even when it's gamey and you're manipulating cards, I think it's great.
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I wouldn't want another exact game like KDM lol. To me the most interesting thing about KDM is the art and sheer volume of "scope" of the Kingdom that the Poots team was trying to create. This board game is 1000x more "Dark Souls" the board game than Dark Souls The Board Game could ever be. Totally passionately made masterpieces of gaming IMO.
 
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Martin Welnicki
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I can cautiously say that something akin to KD:M (in terms of blending battle/storytelling/civ building and scale) is coming, but it's probably a long way off...
 
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Highlord Tamburlaine
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Cryptic much?

It could happen. Just need a creator as insistent on getting their vision across and making sure it plays well.
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Martin Welnicki
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illiterate bookworm wrote:
Cryptic much?


You need to build that hype early
When there's substantial content to be shown, it will be shown...
 
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Henry Akeley
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sirgalin wrote:
Really hard coops about killing monsters...there's a ton of those. The best example would be the original Doom game, which was more or less unwinable. For a less hopeless experience, Arkham Horror (and later Eldrich Horror) is a coop about amassing your team's strength so you can go off and fight a giant baddy (or, hopefully, cut them off at the pass).

Games where you get some kind of currency/xp and use it to level your dudes up in between sessions/missions/quests/whatever. Yep, too many to count. The one that comes up in comparison to KD:M a lot is Shadows of Brimstone. But you could go back to old school D&D for those essential concepts.

Games where you build a civilization, erecting structures to add benefits, making decisions about the disposition of your society with positive and negative trade offs...just search under the Civilization type sort here on bgg and you'll have a few thousand examples. The most recent I enjoy is FFG's SM Civ, which does a fantastic job of both emulating the video game and having you build a civilization. If you want a more localized kind of experience, then there's a whole lot of euro-y city builders that'll get the job done. Heck, even something like Troyes has you spend resources to access buildings which in turn give you more options and ways to spend resources.

Games where you read from a book to tell a narrative...that's kind of like what RPGs are, but in board game format, the grand daddy is certainly Tales of the Arabian Nights. More contemporary versions would be Agents of SMERSH or Above and Below. Or maybe, games where your campaign tells some big overarching story? I'd look no further than Fantasy Flight's Descent system. And if you don't like monsters and magic, then pick up Imperial Assault for Jedis and lasers.

Here's the things I think KD:M does which are truly original:

1. It's the only example of true horror in the board game genre. I mean this in a literary sense (or Phil of Art if you really want to get in the weeds). It doesn't bend over backwards to explain things. The story is told in allusion, and honestly, as much through the artwork as the prose. And most importantly, it doesn't treat the narrative elements with camp. Nearly every other board game that deals with a subject that's traditionally Horror, removes those qualities and adds humor, fantasy, or comedy. The Arkham Horror family maybe is the next best thing, but there's almost no real narrative there, so it's a distant, pale comparison. The best part (and I won't give it away here), is that it doesn't pull any punches, right up through the conclusion. It's through and through horror.
2. It manages to weave together both a storytelling game and a civilization building game. I don't know any example that does both of these things. Usually civ games are telling the story of your society as it rises and falls in the world at large. The story is historic. On the other hand, story telling games, usually focus on individual character feats and how they interact with a broader narrative. In KD:M, there's absolutely a story building throughout the events and you're experiencing that through the many generations of your society.

I will also throw props to KD:M as having the best monster fight system of any game I've played. There are lots of coops that use AI systems to have monsters antagonize the players, but I absolutely love the arena fights in KD:M. Even when it's gamey and you're manipulating cards, I think it's great.


I would like to add one to your list: Kingdom Death is the closest thing I have ever seen to the fabled board game/RPG hybrid (though The 7th Continent looks to do a good job at this as well). It does it so well to the point that I call Kingdom Death an RPG masquerading as a board game.
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Nathan Ehlers
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What's tricky about that is you don't (and probably shouldn't) play a role/develop a character. It's certainly an experience, but from this funny kind of God's Eye View, where you're running an ant farm. I don't actually know of any tradition RPGs that ask you to run a large group instead of a single character. But I see where you're coming from.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yeah, it resembles more Populous than a traditional rpg.
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Henry Akeley
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sirgalin wrote:
What's tricky about that is you don't (and probably shouldn't) play a role/develop a character. It's certainly an experience, but from this funny kind of God's Eye View, where you're running an ant farm. I don't actually know of any tradition RPGs that ask you to run a large group instead of a single character. But I see where you're coming from.


I like to think my group and I are collectively "role playing" the settlement. Almost a sophisticated form of group story telling. So maybe more akin to a group filling in mad libs sort of. Still role playing of sorts.

Kingdom Death to me just is not a traditional board game in the same vein as Power Grid, Agricola, or even other games that purport to tell a story (Descent 2nd edition).
 
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Benj Davis
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I can't think of many other games that involve building up a civilisation (however small) and are co-operative.
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Henry Akeley
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Between KD:M and Rahdo's run through of The 7th Continent gameplay video I am in board game heaven. I feel like these 2 games alone give me everything I want (in case anyone is missing it I love me some Ameritrash games).
 
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