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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Rules

Subject: Grin Respawn rss

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Ian Clarke

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One of the necromancers (think its Grin) only dies if you kill him with a strength 3+ weapon, otherwise he goes back to his starting spawn point.

When you kill a necromancer you can remove a spawn point. If you remove Grins and he's then killed with a weapon that isn't strength 3+ where does he respawn?

1. The space his spawn point was in?
2. The nearest spawn point to that space?
3. He doesn't respawn because he doesn't have a spawn point?
4. Something else?

We went with #1, but wasn't really sure.
 
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Jeffrey Nolin
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Falseemp wrote:
When you kill a necromancer you can remove a spawn point. If you remove Grins and he's then killed with a weapon that isn't strength 3+ where does he respawn?

Looks like you're removing a spawn point before you 'actually' kill him. Why would you do that?
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Flo Heisenbrain
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Jorgen Peddersen
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That is an interesting interaction (perhaps change the OP to mention it's Evil Troy, not Grin, BTW).

For simplicity's sake, I'd say you simply have to remember where Evil Troy's Spawn Token was.

I suppose this also opens up the question of what happens to a Necromancer's routing when you remove their token while they are still on the board. If there is another token where they started, will they head for it, or do they still consider it their entry Zone? It's an interesting question...

Perhaps another solution is to make it so that a Necromancer can only remove standard Spawn Zones and their own starting Zone. I.e., they cannot remove another Necromancer's token until it is flipped by that Necromancer's defeat.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Falseemp wrote:
One of the necromancers (think its Grin) only dies if you kill him with a strength 3+ weapon, otherwise he goes back to his starting spawn point.

When you kill a necromancer you can remove a spawn point. If you remove Grins and he's then killed with a weapon that isn't strength 3+ where does he respawn?

1. The space his spawn point was in?
2. The nearest spawn point to that space?
3. He doesn't respawn because he doesn't have a spawn point?
4. Something else?

We went with #1, but wasn't really sure.

I would say the best info we have is answer #1. The card says to put him back in his Spawn Zone. I guess whether his token is still there is not relevant to that zone still being his spawn zone.
It would appear that this is an example of the need of the given clear distinction between the spawn token and the spawn zone for the necromancer.
 
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Tyrell Wood
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A spawn token cannot be removed. Per the card, until he is killed with a damage 3 weapon or dragon fire.
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Chuck Hurd
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tyrellrwood wrote:
A spawn token cannot be removed. Per the card, until he is killed with a damage 3 weapon or dragon fire.

I think the question may be if you kill some other Necro - can you remove another Necro's spawn token (ie; Evil Troy's).
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Flo Heisenbrain
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Carcking wrote:
tyrellrwood wrote:
A spawn token cannot be removed. Per the card, until he is killed with a damage 3 weapon or dragon fire.

I think the question may be if you kill some other Necro - can you remove another Necro's spawn token (ie; Evil Troy's).


I looked it up in the Rulebook, they don't have a rule for or against this, neither in the Necromancer Part, nor the Cabal rules.

In our games we did not allow it. A Necromancer belongs to a specific Necromancer and cannot be removed by others. Thus we avoid this problem all together.

This might be a good question to ask GG oder CMON directly (since they aquiered all rights to Zcide recently)
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Brad Willo
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I would suggest that you can only remove the Dead Necromancer's Spawn point or a regular spawn.

And that you can't remove another Necromancers spawn point.

(Just an opinion, no rules to back that up)
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M H
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My interpretation is a necro spawn point cannot be removed until the necro tjat created the point leaves the board or is killed. Otherwise there really isn't a reason to even have it as a necro spawn point over a standard spawn from the get go.

Edit: after reading the rulebook, a necromancer spawns with a spawn token. The token is not a spawn zone until the necromancer leaves or is killed. When you kill a necromancer, it specifically states to remove a spawn zone of your choice, including the necromancer's own spawn zone. The book specifically states the spawn token is in effect until the necro dies or leaves, which case it turns into a spawn zone. These are not interchangeably used.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The rules aren't fully consistent, but they can be read that way. It does remove all the weirdness issues involved, so it is probably the best way to play it.

This is the type of question that won't get a good answer from GG/CMON anyway (like how they continue to support the inane Dark Ritual rule), so we should probably just go with that method.
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Chuck Hurd
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Another question comes to mind: can a Necro escape through another Necro's spawn token? Or can he escape only through a Red spawn token?

I think, based on other discussions relative to the Dark Ritual (especially within a building), that we have accepted (or not objected to) allowing one Necro to escape through another's spawn token. So then you have to wonder why you wouldn't be able to remove another Necro's spawn token when you kill one.
 
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Ian Clarke

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Thinking this through a little more, if you allow removal of another necromancers spawn point and he then escapes which necromancers spawn point becomes permanent? Let's be fair that's just making things over complex!

From all that's been said to keep things simple I think we'll be playing you can only remove the necromancers own spawn point OR a permanent one.
 
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Andy Scott
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tyrellrwood wrote:
A spawn token cannot be removed. Per the card, until he is killed with a damage 3 weapon or dragon fire.


The death of any Necromancer could enable you to remove Evil Troys Spawn Point
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I believe we did receive an official ruling that the Necromancer Token is treated as a possible escape point for other Necromancers. I might not be remembering this one properly, though.
 
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Tyrell Wood
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To me it is a necro token vs a spawn token. To me they are different things. Just how I interpret the rules. Doesn't make it right I guess.
 
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Kevin Thai
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There are six colored spawn tokens. The game makers aka pomade six of the corresponding figure bases in the same color. My guess then is each necro is tied to their own spawn point.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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KevinThai wrote:
There are six colored spawn tokens. The game makers aka pomade six of the corresponding figure bases in the same color. My guess then is each necro is tied to their own spawn point.

Importantly though, those color bases are optional play. They do not come in the base game. They are a convenience.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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KevinThai wrote:
There are six colored spawn tokens. The game makers aka pomade six of the corresponding figure bases in the same color. My guess then is each necro is tied to their own spawn point.

They most certainly are for the purposes of their routing, as they ignore their entry Zone.

Whether they ignore other Necros' tokens is up for debate still...
 
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Paul de Senquisse
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The rule seem clear to me. There are "Spawn Zones" and "Necromancer Spawn Zones", described differently in the rule, and visually different on the board.

When a Necro dies, the rules p.30 tell you that you can remove a "Spawn Zone", and then specifically add that you can also choose "ITS OWN Necromancer Spawn Zone". So for me that clearly means that you either remove a REGULAR Spawn Zone, or the Necromancer Spawn Zone specifically tied to the necro you killed (hence the color coding, or there would be only one kind of "Necromancer Spawn Zone"). If you removed a regular Spawn Zone, then the Necromancer Spawn Zone of the necro you just killed is flipped over and becomes a regular Spawn Zone (which can THEN be removed by killing other necros, but not before that).

My two cents
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Jorgen Peddersen
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That specific wording has been noticed, but it can't be said it's fully clear as there are many examples of missing or confusing text with some of the rules. For example, the rules about losing the game due to Necromancer escape on p29 are clear that you do include Necromancer tokens, but this rule is also mentioned on page 37 with no discussion of Necromancer tokens.

Hence, using the logic that if it doesn't mention the Necromancer tokens, then they don't count, we have two contradictory rules. Of course, it's obvious the p29 rule is meant to be the real one, but it means that trying to figure things out is harder, especially when the logic used is it not mentioning something.

In fact, there's a very bad issue with this interpretation when you look at the special rule on p30 about having all the tokens in a single Zone. It makes no mention of Necromancer tokens. So does this mean that a Necromancer that appears in a building in such a situation automatically escapes on next activation as the boxed rule is in effect? Even if you have other Necromancer Spawn tokens on the board? They can escape wherever they are?

Thus, trying to come up with a firm rule that also consistently satisfies all the other rules regarding Necromancer Spawn Tokens is a tad difficult.
 
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