Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Fury of Dracula (third edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Benefits of ambushing? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jono D
Australia
Melbourne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hi All,

Quick question, what is the benefits of ambushing vs not ambushing and forcing the hunter to search a lair and then resolving the card anyway?

I can't seem to think of any positives of ambushing unless I am missing something, not ambushing is slowing the hunter down.

Also, if a revealed vampire on the location track slides off the track does it mature? I guess this would go for any encounter cards that are not discarded and stayed revealed until dealt with that have a matured affect.

Cheers
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Flavio Santos
Brazil
Brasilia
Distrito Federal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Cards have different effects if you ambush.

Of course a revealed vampire also matures. Why would it not?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua F

New Hampshire
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
If you ambush then they don't get a chance to use Stake or Dogs prior to searching.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jono D
Australia
Melbourne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Flaviorbs wrote:
Cards have different effects if you ambush.

Of course a revealed vampire also matures. Why would it not?


I understand encounter cards have a 'ambush' effect and a 'matured' affect. I get that when you ambush you resolve the ambush affect, yet at the same time. If a hunter 'searches' you also resolve the ambush affect. That is why I don't get the benefit of ambushing.



gnarlywhal wrote:
If you ambush then they don't get a chance to use Stake or Dogs prior to searching.


Ah this makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. If a hunter searches, do you resolve all encounter cards at once or does he have to search multiple times? I believe you can ambush with all encounter cards at once if you wish.

Edit: After some further reading. When you ambush you can choose the order that the encounters are resolved in. When a hunter searches, he does indeed resolve all cards and gets to choose the order himself. Answered my own question!

Cheers
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vlastimil Mensik
Czech Republic
Praha 5
Praha
flag msg tools
badge
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Flaviorbs wrote:
Cards have different effects if you ambush.


I do not think, this is true.
Aside from Maturing effect, which is irrelevant for searching or ambushing, the card's effects are the same, whether hunter is ambushed or is searching.
I believe you ambush if you think that the hunter would not search the location or if you want to avoid the effect of Stake or Dog item cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Williams
Scotland
Elgin
Moray
flag msg tools
mbmb
CaesarV wrote:
Flaviorbs wrote:
Cards have different effects if you ambush.


I do not think, this is true.
Aside from Maturing effect, which is irrelevant for searching or ambushing, the card's effects are the same, whether hunter is ambushed or is searching.
I believe you ambush if you think that the hunter would not search the location or if you want to avoid the effect of Stake or Dog item cards.


It's not a general rule, but some encounter cards specifically state different effects for ambush or search, and day or night. IIRC the Fog encounter is one such card.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
H-B-G
United Kingdom
Halesowen
West Midlands
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Orion3T wrote:
CaesarV wrote:
Flaviorbs wrote:
Cards have different effects if you ambush.


I do not think, this is true.
Aside from Maturing effect, which is irrelevant for searching or ambushing, the card's effects are the same, whether hunter is ambushed or is searching.
I believe you ambush if you think that the hunter would not search the location or if you want to avoid the effect of Stake or Dog item cards.


It's not a general rule, but some encounter cards specifically state different effects for ambush or search, and day or night. IIRC the Fog encounter is one such card.


The only different effects between Ambush & Search are that some encounters do not allow Ambush. Fog does have a slight variation depending on day or night, but there is no difference between Ambush and Search for this card.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Williams
Scotland
Elgin
Moray
flag msg tools
mbmb
DaveD wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
It's not a general rule, but some encounter cards specifically state different effects for ambush or search, and day or night. IIRC the Fog encounter is one such card.


The only different effects between Ambush & Search are that some encounters do not allow Ambush. Fog does have a slight variation depending on day or night, but there is no difference between Ambush and Search for this card.


Yes that's exactly what I was getting at, but didn't have cards to physically check. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'explicitly'.

The point is sometimes the end effect of ambushing might be different. Ambushing with a vampire means Dracula has control of how many hunters will be present - by ambushing the first hunter to enter a city the combat will be 1v1, but it will occur during the day. If they don't ambush the hunters could potentially have another hunter go to the same location then the vampire will be outnumbered.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Truce Idares
South Africa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I believe Reckless Vampire is Ambush specific:

Each time you resolve "Fangs" during an ambush,... etc
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Prine
msg tools
The benefit really depends on the situation. One of my prouder moments as Dracula might shed some light on the advantages of ambushing, the advantages of not ambushing, and the importance of timing.

The hunters knew I had landed in Varna or Constanta. What they didn't know was that when I landed I had placed an Unnatural Fog encounter. Godalming moved to Constanta - I was in Varna. Then, Dr. Seward moved to Varna and revealed that I was there. I did not ambush with the fog. Van Helsing and Mina followed. When Mina arrived, I ambushed with the fog! I trapped all three of them in Varna for 2 turns and evaded combat.

So, it's situational. Sometimes leaving an encounter unrevealed can buy you time while the hunters search the location.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zsolt Nagy
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CaesarV wrote:
Flaviorbs wrote:
Cards have different effects if you ambush.


I do not think, this is true.
Aside from Maturing effect, which is irrelevant for searching or ambushing, the card's effects are the same, whether hunter is ambushed or is searching.
I believe you ambush if you think that the hunter would not search the location or if you want to avoid the effect of Stake or Dog item cards.


Stake is indeed only working during Search but Dogs are working during an ambush, too. However Dogs have to be discarded to prevent the encounter from affecting the Hunter. While during search they only have to be revealed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandros Syriopoulos
msg tools
mb
If a hunter moves into a city during the day (which happens most of the times ) and Dracula ambushes with a vampire, then the battle must take place during the next dusk (according to the general rules of when combat occurs) so Dracula has a benefit of ambushing contrary to when the hunters search during the night so the battle occurs during the next dawn giving the hunters the advantage at battle.
Or maybe i got the wrong way and ambush battles with vampires take place right away so when a hunter is ambushed after moving in a city the battle takes place right away during the day?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
giovanni ciampi
msg tools
mb
Abinrml wrote:
If a hunter moves into a city during the day (which happens most of the times ) and Dracula ambushes with a vampire, then the battle must take place during the next dusk (according to the general rules of when combat occurs) so Dracula has a benefit of ambushing contrary to when the hunters search during the night so the battle occurs during the next dawn giving the hunters the advantage at battle.
Or maybe i got the wrong way and ambush battles with vampires take place right away so when a hunter is ambushed after moving in a city the battle takes place right away during the day?


Exactly. It's one of the many confusing things about this game. Vampire fights always happens during day (ambush) or night (search)...while Dracula fights always happen during dawn (day) or dusk (night). This makes sense however, because the Dracula rule is made to allow hunters to gang against him by having the fight happens only after all their actions (usually the day ones, because there's no movement during night). If Dracula is in a city with a hunter during the hunters night actions, he got to move before dawn happens, so usually the there's no fight unless he wants it and plays a power card that allow him to stay there.

Ambushing is sometime useful because, well, after some games it should become clear that the third edition is all about time and the Fury of Dracula ability. So hunters may very well decide to not check every encounter they found and keep pressure on Dracula. Even if Dracula gets 3-7 points by maturing one or two vampires in this way, by the time the Fury of Dracula kicks in the game for the hunters may be already lost if they are in no position to have a decisive fight. So, by trying to bluff Hunters into search for something that slow or damage them...the chance to slow or damage them may simply be lost if they decide not to search.

In a sense, the quite much contested rumor tokens are probably there to give Dracula a shot at a non-fury-of-dracula win, and makes vampire a bit less win-more when confronted with that ability. Both that ability and the tokens are probably not that well designed anyway, and if the point was indeed to put the game on a clock, i think better solutions could have been found. Still, it's good that the game is now more tilted toward Dracula and more challenging for the Hunters, which is the exact opposite of the second edition.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Earl
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Abinrml wrote:
Or maybe i got the wrong way and ambush battles with vampires take place right away so when a hunter is ambushed after moving in a city the battle takes place right away during the day?


Yes, the combat takes place immediately, in day or night. So it makes sense to allow the hunter to move in during the day without ambushing, so they will search at night and give the vampire the advantage. (Of course, there's that whole Reckless Vampire ambush advantage...)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fivecents Five
Canada
flag msg tools
The thing that seams relevant is fighting one hunter and ambushing each hunter as he arrives...unless of course the ambush rule stating ambushing encounters are discarded after being resolved..unless by resolved they mean placing the vampire...but, if combat happens when resolved instead of when revealed why not other ambush rules? It states the encounter is removed unless the card states otherwise I assume the vampire stays but that is unclear because the damage remains rule may only apply to searched out vampires...??these rules are not well written.."the dawn" or the dusk as a play card condition should read any dawn to avoid the rules lawyers insisting that it be played in the naxt dawn..not stating three rounds in combat but, in reference..when dracule plays to road block cards in the same turn is only one removed in the next round or two? Road block says remove one if multiple are played card says remove oneso two cars two counters...can i play two road blocks on the same road?..fog stacks...storms don't? So what?..the confusion of using the name dracula to mean the player and sometimes the creature himself...rules editting is disappointing...no more support because the title was given back to gw...no reference to it at all on gw web site??!...gone in a puff of mist...where did he go?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.