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Subject: new candidate enters the race... rss

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Still better than Obama.
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ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.
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Steve Cates
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whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.

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Josh
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Regurgitating random data points doesn't make your case.
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Shadrach wrote:
Regurgitating random data points doesn't make your case.

Sorry, I forgot reason and evidence has no value in RSP.
 
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ironcates wrote:
Sorry, I forgot reason and evidence has no value in RSP.
Evidence in a vacuum has no value. Please apply the "reason" you omitted. Can you do the following if you are going to use that data?

A) Reformat the graphs so as to have longer time frames and accurate scales?
B) Indicate for each measure what policy Obama implemented that caused whatever data change you are claiming? Ensure to indicate how Congress had no influence on the data or on any policies that Obama tried to implement to address the particular conclusion you arrived at.
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ironcates wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Regurgitating random data points doesn't make your case.

Sorry, I forgot reason and evidence has no value in RSP.
Worker participation, how is more pensioners Obama's fault?

Also how does this


Tally with your table?
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ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Remember when these graphs were criticised? (Arbitrary scales and time periods etc. etc.
Why are do you right-wingers never realise that repeating stuff doesn't make it any truer?
I commend you to the GDP graph from the same source, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1/?utm_source=fred-gl... which you seem to have neglected to post.
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ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Data is the basis of an argument. It is not the argument itself. We've got the data and so what case do you make based on that data?
 
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TheChin! wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Sorry, I forgot reason and evidence has no value in RSP.
Evidence in a vacuum has no value. Please apply the "reason" you omitted. Can you do the following if you are going to use that data?

A) Reformat the graphs so as to have longer time frames and accurate scales?
B) Indicate for each measure what policy Obama implemented that caused whatever data change you are claiming? Ensure to indicate how Congress had no influence on the data or on any policies that Obama tried to implement to address the particular conclusion you arrived at.


He's at the limits that the FED graphing tool applies. Not all databases are complete.

But yea, you need a candidate who has policies that might have an effect. Given almost 30 years of republican control of the ability to create and pass legislation, the graphs are more damning than affirming of continued republican congressional control.

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whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Data is the basis of an argument. It is not the argument itself. We've got the data and so what case do you make based on that data?
Thought it was obvious but I can see that the Obama fans are a little slow. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CHARTS SHOWS BAD NEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF OBAMA'S TENURE!!

It's not a problem with the scales. If you want to see as equal a time scale as possible, see here The problem is that people don't know how to read charts. The data comes from the Fed, so you guys are arguing against the government you are so proud of.
 
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ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Data is the basis of an argument. It is not the argument itself. We've got the data and so what case do you make based on that data?
Thought it was obvious but I can see that the Obama fans are a little slow. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CHARTS SHOWS BAD NEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF OBAMA'S TENURE!!

It's not a problem with the scales. If you want to see as equal a time scale as possible, see here The problem is that people don't know how to read charts. The data comes from the Fed, so you guys are arguing against the government you are so proud of.
And how about my one?

How about the fact my one shows that no only is median income now rising, but it is higher then it was in 1995?
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:

I commend you to the GDP graph from the same source, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1/?utm_source=fred-gl... which you seem to have neglected to post.
GDP in the context of the money printing and loans is kind of ridiculous plus you'll notice that GDP dips then grows at a slower pace when Obama comes in. So, I don't think you understand the chart that you posted.
 
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slatersteven wrote:

How about the fact my one shows that no only is median income now rising, but it is higher then it was in 1995?
Great, we're at 1995 levels, win for Obama?
 
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ironcates wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

I commend you to the GDP graph from the same source, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1/?utm_source=fred-gl... which you seem to have neglected to post.
GDP in the context of the money printing and loans is kind of ridiculous plus you'll notice that GDP dips then grows at a slower pace when Obama comes in. So, I don't think you understand the chart that you posted.


Half of your charts deal in dollar cost without adjusting for inflation so complaining about his GDP chart not taking into account money supply changes is... yeah.
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ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Data is the basis of an argument. It is not the argument itself. We've got the data and so what case do you make based on that data?
Thought it was obvious but I can see that the Obama fans are a little slow. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CHARTS SHOWS BAD NEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF OBAMA'S TENURE!!

It's not a problem with the scales. If you want to see as equal a time scale as possible, see here The problem is that people don't know how to read charts. The data comes from the Fed, so you guys are arguing against the government you are so proud of.

As I said, I am no fan of Obama. I think he's terrible. You said though that he's worse than either Clinton or Trump. You have yet to prove that contention.
 
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ironcates wrote:
The data comes from the Fed, so you guys are arguing against the government you are so proud of.
First off, the government is broken and not too many people are proud of it as a whole. Secondly, they aren't even part of the government. Just entwined with it.

From wikipedia:
Quote:
In Lewis v. United States,[76] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that: "The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."
 
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ironcates wrote:
slatersteven wrote:

How about the fact my one shows that no only is median income now rising, but it is higher then it was in 1995?
Great, we're at 1995 levels, win for Obama?
No we are higher, so that means he is better then Regan (whose were lower).

 
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mightygodking wrote:
ironcates wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

I commend you to the GDP graph from the same source, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1/?utm_source=fred-gl... which you seem to have neglected to post.
GDP in the context of the money printing and loans is kind of ridiculous plus you'll notice that GDP dips then grows at a slower pace when Obama comes in. So, I don't think you understand the chart that you posted.


Half of your charts deal in dollar cost without adjusting for inflation so complaining about his GDP chart not taking into account money supply changes is... yeah.

When you lose money under inflation it's doubly bad. Median income should be keeping up with inflation the fact that it goes down is even worse... so , yeah.
 
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ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
whac3 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Still better than Obama.

How and why? and I say that as someone who is no fan of Obama.


Data is the basis of an argument. It is not the argument itself. We've got the data and so what case do you make based on that data?
Thought it was obvious but I can see that the Obama fans are a little slow. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CHARTS SHOWS BAD NEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF OBAMA'S TENURE!!

It's not a problem with the scales. If you want to see as equal a time scale as possible, see here The problem is that people don't know how to read charts. The data comes from the Fed, so you guys are arguing against the government you are so proud of.


You need to recheck your graphs because the problem is visibly starting before obama came into office in about 2003. This was solidly in Bush Jr's term. They gathered steam until being dumped on Obama's doorstep.
Caveat tho: 9/11 dumped a major piece of crap in Bush's lap. Also greenspan holding interests rates too low too long artificially pulled forward economic activity until it blew up in a series of huge bubbles. Also, republican PLUS democratic policies deregulating banks and pushing easy housing loans also created a huge financial crisis.

Obama spent most of his first term trying to fix the mess left for him in the face of a republican house and senate that slow walked every appointment and voted no to every proposal (often without offering counter proposals- they were simply the "Party of No" and they said as much (it's only become more obvious with the recent supreme court travesty).

Anyway, your own graphs show the problem started long before Obama took office. Look at them again and tell me how on earth you can conclude Obama is responsible for events starting in 2003 to 2008*. You've actually proven the problems started years earlier under Bush.



*Since Obama wasn't even in office til 1/20/2009 and it took at least a few months to get rolling, most of 2009 is on Bush also.

*And the republicans repeatedly blocked Obama's attempts to fix the problem. They wanted him to fail- even at the expense of the entire country failing.
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maxo-texas wrote:

You need to recheck your graphs because the problem is visibly starting before obama came into office in about 2003. This was solidly in Bush Jr's term. They gathered steam until being dumped on Obama's doorstep.
Caveat tho: 9/11 dumped a major piece of crap in Bush's lap. Also greenspan holding interests rates too low too long artificially pulled forward economic activity until it blew up in a series of huge bubbles. Also, republican PLUS democratic policies deregulating banks and pushing easy housing loans also created a huge financial crisis.

Obama spent most of his first term trying to fix the mess left for him in the face of a republican house and senate that slow walked every appointment and voted no to every proposal (often without offering counter proposals- they were simply the "Party of No" and they said as much (it's only become more obvious with the recent supreme court travesty).

Anyway, your own graphs show the problem started long before Obama took office. Look at them again and tell me how on earth you can conclude Obama is responsible for events starting in 2003 to 2008*. You've actually proven the problems started years earlier under Bush.



*Since Obama wasn't even in office til 1/20/2009 and it took at least a few months to get rolling, most of 2009 is on Bush also.

*And the republicans repeatedly blocked Obama's attempts to fix the problem. They wanted him to fail- even at the expense of the entire country failing.

I'm open to the idea that Bush is responsible for some declines. The original context of bringing up the charts was "Make America Great Again" I think Trump is an outsider that puts blame on both sides of the aisle.

The OP was saying that Clinton-Trump was everyone's worst nightmare but let's put it in context, we survived the last two presidents. I don't imagine Clinton or Trump will be as bad.
 
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