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Hurtgen: Hell's Forest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rule 13.8.3 Combat Reserve but on other side of river rss

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Clay Stone
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I don't see anywhere in the rules the prohibits us from using combat reserve "CR" against units across a river.

I have a battle where i have the US units on the same side as the German units i'm attacking, but i have three of my infantry units on the other side of the river which i like to use in combat reserve. Can i put those infantry units into "CR"? They are leg units and 3 hexes from the attacking hex, 2 step Btn, etc, BUT it's on the other side of the river.

I know if we wanted to fight an enemy unit across a non bridge river location we need a engineer to ferry us across. So I'm thinking I can't put guys in "CR" mode when on other side of river.
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Atlantic Wall: D-Day to Falaise (Decision Games)
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This would depend on what Combat Reserve actually represents in this game at this scale I would think. If literally a reserve force then, yes I'd think the rule needs that clarity but you might have noticed the CR never actually moves, so if only there as "Potential" or a morale booster, then perhaps the river is of little concern.

Nice point btw...
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Tom Stearns
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Yea I don't think the river is a factor. It simply says 3 hexes away.
 
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Doug Johnson

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They can still be used for CR.

Also note that if the river is not a Major or Great River, you can attack across an un-bridged or non-ford hex side across the river, your attack strength is halved, if not using an engineer to ferry your units.

CR represents a number of factors at this level.

1. The morale factor, of knowing the attackers or defenders have reserves behind the line to support them.

2. Heavy weapon support, while below the level of the game, Btn/Regt indirect and direct fire weapons have been moved into position to support the attack or defense.

3. Planning and coordination, again while below the level of the game, having units in CR represents a higher level of planning/coordination between maneuver elements within the division. Again giving a boost to the attackers or defenders.

I have considered adding in an additional bullet requiring that the 3 hex distance cannot have prohibited terrain between the CR unit and the units it is supporting, however that really gets complicated and forces players to trace out a path, rather than just counting hexes. At this level I don't believe it would be more realistic, and it would definitely add one more complication to the combat routine.
 
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Atlantic Wall: D-Day to Falaise (Decision Games)
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warguy wrote:


I have considered adding in an additional bullet requiring that the 3 hex distance cannot have prohibited terrain between the CR unit and the units it is supporting, however that really gets complicated and forces players to trace out a path, rather than just counting hexes. At this level I don't believe it would be more realistic, and it would definitely add one more complication to the combat routine.


I like both points and am torn on this one...
 
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Doug Johnson

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To be honest, I am also.

Here is where I have to decide how far to take this and other rules. I believe that Joe has created an excellent representation of WW2 operations that requires players to plan ahead and think about a multitude of factors that faced the actual commanders. With this topic, I don't think the additional rules would really represent what CR is really all about, any better than the current rule does.

The problem is, how far do we take it? Joe and I have discussed at some point posting a set of very detailed optional rules (concepts like this would be a good example). None of them would be included in future games but would give the players who want extra "chrome" and don't mind the additional playing time the option to use them, while at the same time it wouldn't confuse and or add to an already complicated and lengthy set of rules.
 
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Joseph Youst
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Well, my feeling is that CR should definitely not be able to be traced across a Maj or Great River - even if bridged, or aided by engineers at a crossing point. This is another example of it being tough to support an initial bridgehead across such a terrain feature.
 
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Clay Stone
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Threw a curve ball on you...

I like the rule option idea. I also like having the rule preventing us from using "CR" across any rivers....

Not to get off topic, but I also felt an option rule would be nice for Mech units retreating more than one hex on a road with other Mech units behind them. I feel those retreating Mech units should have to stop when landing in the same hex with other mech units. It represents a bottleneck happening.


...
 
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Doug Johnson

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The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. As Joe said they probably shouldn't be able to support across a major or great river. I will take a look at it later today and update the rule to include that. Going to be important when it comes to Lucky forward.

 
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Doug Johnson

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Okay guys, the below bullet has been added to GOSS 13.7.3 (updated rules).

• The path of three hexes may not cross a Major or Great River. Bridges, fords, and engineers do not negate this restriction.
 
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Clay Stone
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I like the change...
 
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