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Subject: Horrible, fucking horrible rss

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Jay D
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This may be the worst game I have ever played.

Disclaimers: I have only played this once with 7 people (partially, I actually quit in the second round to save my sanity).

Let's start with components. They are, at best mediocre. It's 2 different sized cubes for your "dudes" to put on the map. The map is drab mess of brown and beige that can make it difficult to determine where to put your cubes due to ambiguous delineation of zones. The player boards are small things that should have a damn player aid on them to go through the 9 or so steps you need to go through in order on each of your very rare turns. Also, there's a ton of symbols and nowhere are they defined except in the rule book. Unacceptable in this day. That info is printed on the terrible board, but only in one corner and it's only the short form of the steps (no description of what you do for that step). I will see the cardboard chits are nice and thick. Also, I noticed the dice were absolute crap. Some were different sizes and out of shape...

I played this pile of shit for 1.5 hours and took 1 TURN in that time. To be fair, it was a learning game for everyone, but there's very little player interaction in the trumped up, overly complicated alliance mechanic. That means you are sitting there reading the history of needlepoint on your phone for the hour in between your turn because it's far more exciting than the game you are "playing". Also, there is zero compensation for player order. Everyone gets some sort of starting setup that might be "dudes" on the board or on your faction board or something, but if you are like I was, last, you're screwed. You just sit and watch everything die until it comes to your turn. Super fun! And then, when it comes to your turn, you roll crappy dice!

You get to choose a die to save each time, but that's your only mitigation against pure luck. That's right, it's supposedly a strategic area control game that comes completely down to luck.

Then you get to make alliances, which you may have no actual choice on because you actually need to get some of your cubes on the god damn map somewhere other than the utterly useless polar region.

Combat, oh combat. Combat is deterministic in this game. Generally, I like deterministic combat, when it is done correctly (see Scythe and Kemet). As you may have guessed, this game does NOT do deterministic combat correctly. In both Kemet and Scythe, you can determine how much power can be played into the combat, but in both games, you have "kickers" in the form of powers on cards you can play. In this shitty game, You just have the power of your cubes and maybe a "leader" (also with a set number of "power points"). Sure, you get to choose what you put into battle, but if you are clearly going to lose (math is not that hard here), why would you commit people to battle? But wait, it DOESN'T MATTER!! If you are going to lose, all your people are going to die and there is nothing you can do about it!! Can you feel the fun factor?!?! So, if you are outgunned, all your people are dead. That's it. Done. End of story.

Avoid this game at all costs. Take up belly lint collecting. Anything is better than this game. Seriously.

I kind of apologize for the profanity here, but this game deserves it.
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Pedro Pereira
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I'm not sure this qualifies as a review if you haven't even played even one full game... it's ok to "hate" a game, if you actually went through the effort of trying it out and understanding what about it doesn't appeal to you... 2 rounds isn't really acceptable for review material...
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Jim Parkin
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Bojan Brankov
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Also, do you realize it's print and play game? So components are completely dependent on who made them. Mine are beautiful.
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Dan Cunningham
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I'm sorry to hear about your horrible play experience. But thank you for the post. It's not often people take the effort to report on things they dislike. I think your post can be a fair warning to new players. I can certainly imagine that this game would be very frustrating with 7 new players in a learning game.

I recently played a learning game with just three players. And while this not an ideal number of players for playing the game once you understand the mechanics (with three players there are no alliances!), it was a good way to learn those basic mechanics. But even with three new players, the turns took a too long and it felt like a long time between turns. With seven that must have been agony.

I do want to point out that there is one (very important) bit of compensation for player order; you pick your faction in reverse player order. This is possibly the most important decision you'll make the whole game. It is unfortunate for new players that you have to make this decision before you have any idea of how the game actually plays, let alone before you have any understanding of how the different factions play out and which ones make sense for you to pick.

Enjoy,
Dan
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A L D A R O N
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Pedrator wrote:
I'm not sure this qualifies as a review if you haven't even played even one full game

It's not necessary to play a full game to review it. Sometimes reading the rules is sufficient.
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Jim Parkin
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Aldaron wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
I'm not sure this qualifies as a review if you haven't even played even one full game

It's not necessary to play a full game to review it. Sometimes reading the rules is sufficient.

I agree with that. Reading the rules provides a sufficient grasp of what to expect from any game.
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Pedro Pereira
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Annowme wrote:
Aldaron wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
I'm not sure this qualifies as a review if you haven't even played even one full game

It's not necessary to play a full game to review it. Sometimes reading the rules is sufficient.

I agree with that. Reading the rules provides a sufficient grasp of what to expect from any game.


Yes, it might provide you with expectations... but it stops there. You need to actually play it to know whether your expectations are going to be exceeded, matched or disappointed. Then you write a review.
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Jim Parkin
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Pedrator wrote:
Annowme wrote:
Aldaron wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
I'm not sure this qualifies as a review if you haven't even played even one full game

It's not necessary to play a full game to review it. Sometimes reading the rules is sufficient.

I agree with that. Reading the rules provides a sufficient grasp of what to expect from any game.


Yes, it might provide you with expectations... but it stops there. You need to actually play it to know whether your expectations are going to be exceeded, matched or disappointed. Then you write a review.

Yep. Makes sense. I'd typically prefer to play a game three or four times before reviewing it, all the same. I tend to dislike hyperbole in reviews either positive or negative.
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Pedro Pereira
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Annowme wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Yes, it might provide you with expectations... but it stops there. You need to actually play it to know whether your expectations are going to be exceeded, matched or disappointed. Then you write a review.

Yep. Makes sense. I'd typically prefer to play a game three or four times before reviewing it, all the same. I tend to dislike hyperbole in reviews either positive or negative.


You're a gentleman Jim.
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Jim Parkin
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Pedrator wrote:
Annowme wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Yes, it might provide you with expectations... but it stops there. You need to actually play it to know whether your expectations are going to be exceeded, matched or disappointed. Then you write a review.

Yep. Makes sense. I'd typically prefer to play a game three or four times before reviewing it, all the same. I tend to dislike hyperbole in reviews either positive or negative.


You're a gentleman Jim.

Nah, I indulge far too many snarky gifs.
 
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Langley Rock
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Heiko Günther
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crustymonkey wrote:
(…)That means you are sitting there reading the history of needlepoint on your phone for the hour in between your turn(…)

Yeah, hate that as well, banned people staring into their phones from game's night.
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Duarte
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So, if I dislike the idea of a game, can call it the worst game ever?

He doesn't seem to realize that this is not a professional design, the components are whatever you get, cause they are not for sale.

Some of the best selling games of all time are based on high luck factor and a roll-move design. Nothing else. You don't have to think, you can't mitigate your luck, you just roll and see what happens. This one gives you some decisions.

Is it perfect? No. But it's not, by far, the worst game ever.
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Pedro Silva
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Hmmm... I think you made some mistakes on the rules.

First, the turns can't possibly be that long... If you had to wait 90 minutes for 6 players to take their turns then you probably were playing with lobotomised people. The turns really aren't that complicated. Especially if you think the game is all luck of the dice...

The components depend on who made them. This is PnP, after all. If your lobotomised buddies suck at crafts it's hardly the game's fault. Perhaps you should discuss the matter with their nurses...

You don't need to have troops on the map to make alliances. You need to roll the symbol of the faction you wish to ally with.

The only thing I agree with you is on combat resolution. I dislike the fact that the loser loses all troops irrespective of how many he committed to battle. Gives you no option for retreat. Easily fixable, though.

The game is not brilliant but it is far from what you describe. Your review is not about Dune: The dice game. It's about playing a game with wrong rules with lobotomised people.

This review is fucking idiotic. I apologise for the profanity but... Then again, I don't. Your review thoroughly deserves it.

Bring on the mods.
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James
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Jay, good grief!

You played two rounds of a learning game and write it up as the worst game ever in a profanity laden review. You misplayed rules, taking many times the amount of time to play what should be a quick game, and complained about the components in a print and play game. You missed all the decision points in the game and make no reference to the original Dune and how this translates the experience. You aren't required to like it, but come on, now, Jay, I think you know you're not being fair. I can't think you believe you have enough of a factual grounding in these impressions to make the pronouncements you are making. I know it's fun to vent after what sounds like, for whatever reason, a bad game session, though; I have been there. Deep breaths!

shake
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Pauly Paul
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dukelander wrote:
Also, do you realize it's print and play game? So components are completely dependent on who made them. Mine are beautiful.


You actually can purchase it.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Neither of the games you listed are deterministic. I think you are looking for is not random.
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chris thatcher
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In his defence other reviews also say down time is a issue with this game.
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Andrew J.
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Yeah, he raises (many) valid points as it's a PnP game that's had limited testing and even the author has said is not to the point he would like it to be. Many of these issues are why I sold my copy of the game.

It's just the delivery that's totally the wrong tone.
 
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Jeffery Hudson
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I have a few questions for the OP....

1. Have you ever played the original Dune game this PnP project was based on? I'm going to guess no, because most of your complaints come from the original game. Combat is right out of the original game. The original game components were TERRIBLE. The map was small, the cards were thin card stock crap, artwork was..well, let's not discuss the artwork, the "men" we're small cardboard disks, and your player shields never really worked right AND the game took forever...BUT the game was from the late 70's and most "designer" games from that period were like that.

2. You do realize it's Print and Play? Chances are your "owner" spent just the cost in materials to make it. If he bought a "professional copy" then he can take a look at my trade list and I'll be happy to take it off his Hansard. For PNP it's Georgians, especially since he's mimicking the look of the original game. Anyone who loves the original work will look at his game and say "I have to play this".

3. It's a dice game, did you not expect some randomness? Not only is it a dice game, it's a conversion of a standard board game. Just that alone limits what he can do.

I don't care if you don't like the game, but to make the comments you have about a print and play project is downright rude. Especially as a fan project of another game. Instead of looking at the source game it's based off of you compair it to games 40+ years newer.
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Joy Cohn
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Quick question:

Have you ever played the Avalon Hill version of Dune?

That is, have you ever tried to figure out THOSE rules?
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M. Shanmugasundaram
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PnP or otherwise, games should be easily understood and enjoyable.

I played Dune Express, a previous incarnation of this game, and was less than impressed. So unimpressed that I simply cannot recall the experience beyond the fact that we were confused and indifferent.

It was certainly easier than the full AH game, but that's really about it.

If you enjoyed the game, that's great, but for my money and time, there are way better investments.
 
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James
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rumble wrote:
PnP or otherwise, games should be easily understood and enjoyable.

I played Dune Express, a previous incarnation of this game, and was less than impressed. So unimpressed that I simply cannot recall the experience beyond the fact that we were confused and indifferent.

It was certainly easier than the full AH game, but that's really about it.

If you enjoyed the game, that's great, but for my money and time, there are way better investments.

...so you have not played this game at all?

I have played this game and I like it - but I am not crazy about it, either. As the kind designer (who posted and was gracious in his post) has acknowledged, it feels like there are some needed tweaks to make the game feel complete, adding some more of the uncertainty and player interaction of the original Dune. I believe they are still in the works before being finished. Regardless, no, no one has to like it. ...but it is fair to expect also that someone who writes a review of a game made available free to the community not produce rude, hyperbolic profanity as well and fair to expect that they have actually played at least one session - not two rounds incorrectly. Sometimes these kinds of reviews are funny to write and funny to read, I know; I would like to think Jay would agree with me after having gotten over what sounds like a rotten experience due to any number of factors, perhaps involving the game but certainly not limited to the game itself. It would be easy to forgive if so. We all invest a lot of emotion in games or we would not all be geeks in this community, after all!
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Eric Brosius
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My group played a whole game in about an hour. Everyone had multiple turns. If my group took multiple hours to play one turn, I would dislike most games.

I liked Dune: The Dice Game more than I expected. (I'll admit that Mike Anastasia makes gorgeous PnP games; sounds like the version you played on was much less attractive.)
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