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Mech Command RTS» Forums » General

Subject: They never had a signed contract to use the Armored Core IP rss

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Trent DePonte
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Straight from the horses mouth:

Quote:
We are waiting on the final edits with FROM Software on the mutual statement and will publish it as soon as it is finalized. In summary, it will state that we developed the game with the encouragement of the licensor; that the contract was not finalized before launching the campaign; that the licensors were working with us during the campaign to find a way to complete the agreement; that the complexities in the overlap of the IP by the licensors created confusion as to what parts of the IP we were able to utilize; and that there was misunderstanding as to the degree of approval required on each individual component, particularly the one’s not fully developed that would make up the stretch rewards.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/223137030/armored-coret...
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Shiro
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The game was created with fromsofts permission and blessing according to that quote. So there was nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical about the campaign. So what is your point?
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Stuart Holttum
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I think the point is that - as has happened - the lack of a firm contract before the Kickstarter was launched caused colossal problems.

At best, BCG have been naive and over-eager. Not necessarily bad things, but NOT traits I want from a company who will be juggling a number of commercial contracts before they can get me my game. If they were that blade about the key partner, how likely is it that all their production contracts will go without a hitch?
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Trent DePonte
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Stu Holttum wrote:
I think the point is that - as has happened - the lack of a firm contract before the Kickstarter was launched caused colossal problems.

At best, BCG have been naive and over-eager. Not necessarily bad things, but NOT traits I want from a company who will be juggling a number of commercial contracts before they can get me my game. If they were that blade about the key partner, how likely is it that all their production contracts will go without a hitch?


Exactly.

As for nothing unethical being done, well telling us the game is officially licensed when you don't have the license is, at best, intentionally misleading and is going to cause some people to wonder what your intentions were from the start.
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Oblivion Doll
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There's some details in the core rules which COULD have been handled slightly differently and fit the lore of AC, but were instead presented - even while the game was claiming to be AC - in a manner which defies core aspects of the franchise's setting. The add-ons (other than the AI expansion) further broke the game's connection to AC instead of reinforcing it like they needed to.

This news just reinforces my suspicion that FROM only knew about the core rules, and the desire for the game to be an AC-licensed game. Honestly, I would love to see an actual AC boardgame, but even when they did have the license, this was never looking like it would be one.

Also, if they didn't have a solid legal claim to the license, FROM are the type of company who WOULD have taken them to court already over claiming they did. While it wasn't a finalised agreement, there WAS at least a provisional agreement in place. The kickstarter wouldn't have made it out of the first day otherwise.
 
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Jim Pooley
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And I seem to remember this quote from the annoucement of tghe name change:

Quote:
The license holders for the game franchise have final approval authority over everything that is produced. We have reason to be concerned that our planned stretch rewards and other game content will be delayed as it goes through a complex approval process.


I read this as they had approval for the main game but not the stretch goals which seemed strange anyway.

I'd say that was pretty unethical boarding on fraudulent when people assumed they had an offical licence to produce the game. Wherethey hoping to get it after or during the Kickstarter?

No official license...merely 'encouragement' from 'FROM' but still FROM needed to have final approval on stretch goals etc?

And BCG are seemingly blaming FROM for the confusion over which bits of IP needed approval etc.

Quote:
We will continue to discuss the possibility of cancelling and relaunching this campaign. There are risks involved in cancelling as the majority of the capital invested into this project has been utilized in developing the game, working with the license holder and creating the KickStarter campaign.


Note:
Quote:
working with the license holder


Not PAYING for the licence...if most of the capital has already been used were FROM really going to allow a 3rd Party to use their IP without any payment for it? Not exactly a great business model?

Were BCG ever going to have to pay FROM for the licence and where would that money come from?

Was BCG really going for a bait & switch as has been mentioned before when they knew they wouldn't have the money to buy the licence from FROM?

As for the rules all they need to do is scan the pages into a computer if they are written down and PDF them or PDF the Word document the rough rules are in and post them on Kickstarter.
 
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Trent DePonte
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Alfsterino wrote:
And I seem to remember this quote from the annoucement of tghe name change:

Quote:
The license holders for the game franchise have final approval authority over everything that is produced. We have reason to be concerned that our planned stretch rewards and other game content will be delayed as it goes through a complex approval process.


I read this as they had approval for the main game but not the stretch goals which seemed strange anyway.

I'd say that was pretty unethical boarding on fraudulent when people assumed they had an offical licence to produce the game. Wherethey hoping to get it after or during the Kickstarter?

No official license...merely 'encouragement' from 'FROM' but still FROM needed to have final approval on stretch goals etc?

And BCG are seemingly blaming FROM for the confusion over which bits of IP needed approval etc.

Quote:
We will continue to discuss the possibility of cancelling and relaunching this campaign. There are risks involved in cancelling as the majority of the capital invested into this project has been utilized in developing the game, working with the license holder and creating the KickStarter campaign.


Note:
Quote:
working with the license holder


Not PAYING for the licence...if most of the capital has already been used were FROM really going to allow a 3rd Party to use their IP without any payment for it? Not exactly a great business model?

Were BCG ever going to have to pay FROM for the licence and where would that money come from?

Was BCG really going for a bait & switch as has been mentioned before when they knew they wouldn't have the money to buy the licence from FROM?

As for the rules all they need to do is scan the pages into a computer if they are written down and PDF them or PDF the Word document the rough rules are in and post them on Kickstarter.


A cynical man might think that BCG developed a game, found a company with a dormant but beloved IP that fit the theme of that game and that had just had a hugely successful KS with one of their other video game properties and told them whatever they wanted to hear to get the go ahead to start a campaign before actually having to lock themselves into a contract that would have required paying licensing fees to the rights holder of the IP.

A cynical man might think that.
 
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Oblivion Doll
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FellintoOblivion wrote:
dormant


How "dormant" do you really think AC is?

People are still running tournaments for Verdict Day.
 
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Trent DePonte
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obliviondoll wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:
dormant


How "dormant" do you really think AC is?

People are still running tournaments for Verdict Day.


It's extremely dormant in terms of new products being developed. Hasn't been a new video game in three years and the only thing I can think of that's used the IP recently are model kits.

People are speculating FROM is working on a new game now that they have shelved Dark Souls for a bit which probably made them even more eager to expand the IP.
 
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Jim Pooley
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obliviondoll wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:
dormant


How "dormant" do you really think AC is?

People are still running tournaments for Verdict Day.


Indeed AC is still ging strong which is why the KS was so popular. Not a straight lore copy but the movement etc looked realistic hence why people went for it.
 
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Oblivion Doll
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FellintoOblivion wrote:
obliviondoll wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:
dormant


How "dormant" do you really think AC is?

People are still running tournaments for Verdict Day.


It's extremely dormant in terms of new products being developed. Hasn't been a new video game in three years and the only thing I can think of that's used the IP recently are model kits.

People are speculating FROM is working on a new game now that they have shelved Dark Souls for a bit which probably made them even more eager to expand the IP.


FROM's Miyazaki has directly stated that the company has every intention of making another AC game. There's been no timeframe provided, but it's been promised without any doubt.

Verdict Day was September 2013, but as mentioned, it still has an active enough playerbase to support competitive play.
 
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Trent DePonte
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obliviondoll wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:
obliviondoll wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:
dormant


How "dormant" do you really think AC is?

People are still running tournaments for Verdict Day.


It's extremely dormant in terms of new products being developed. Hasn't been a new video game in three years and the only thing I can think of that's used the IP recently are model kits.

People are speculating FROM is working on a new game now that they have shelved Dark Souls for a bit which probably made them even more eager to expand the IP.


FROM's Miyazaki has directly stated that the company has every intention of making another AC game. There's been no timeframe provided, but it's been promised without any doubt.

Verdict Day was September 2013, but as mentioned, it still has an active enough playerbase to support competitive play.


That's why I said dormant and beloved. No active development but still plenty of people playing it.
 
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Tim Bailey
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This means they have been lying to everyone from Day 1. They lied about their license, they lied about "why" they changed the name, and now they are caught in those lies by their own admission.

Anyone who actually backs this : you WILL NOT get your game. You simply cannot trust a company that has lied to you this much to take your money and deliver on their promises. I feel bad too, because there's a ton of good stuff on kickstarter and people like this make folks weary to back stuff.
 
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Jim Pooley
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Maybe they could rename it: Serpent's Tongue 2?
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Duncan Idaho
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mactireban wrote:
The game was created with fromsofts permission and blessing according to that quote. So there was nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical about the campaign. So what is your point?


Love the contortions people will go through to justify any behavior.
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