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Legendary Encounters: A Firefly Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Part of the Problem rss

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Steve Crow
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As noted elsewhere, I was at GenCon and saw this. Having seen the pre-regs, I wasn't surprised. All the "play-to-win" events for Firefly were sold out, but there were plenty of Big Trouble PTW events still open. That seemed in line with my expectations. Lots of Firefly fans out there. Not so many Big Trouble fans.

But when I got there, I was surprised to see how heavily Upper Deck was promoting BT over Firefly. You've got one cult movie, versus a highly fan-liked TV series and a movie. But UD seemed to be focusing more on BT. The booth was heavily BT themed, with the Pork Chop Express cab and the Chinese decor.

Yeah, expecting the booth to be Firefly themed, with a mockup of Serenity, would have been unrealistic. But it's surprising how little UD promoted the game at their GenCon booth. They had demos and posters, sure. But other than that, not much.

Or maybe it's not that surprising. The BT box is... eye-catching. It has a variety of colors, and decent images of Jack Burton and Lo Pan. The Firefly box, not so much. The Firefly box cover is kinda of a washed-out blue throughout (albeit brighter on the left, where an enemy ship is firing), and features no one from the show. "Legendary Encounters" is at the top, with Encounters in the Firefly font. But the actual word Firefly is in smaller type down at the bottom. The box sides, "Firefly" is even harder to pick out.

The cover picture is of Serenity. Which no matter how great an image it is, is not a great attention-getter. Yes, anyone familiar with the show would say, "Yeah, that's a Firefly game!" But Serenity isn't nearly as iconic as Enterprise, or Millennium Falcon, or a Death Star.

I like Firefly as a game more than Big Trouble. But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.
 
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Steve Crow
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Ditto for the art. I wouldn't say the artwork on BT is great. But overall it is better than Firefly. It seems like UD spent more money on artists for BT than for Firefly.

Is it just that BT is a Marvel-style competitive game, while Firefly is fully co-op? Or that and something else? Or something else entirely?
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Jay Johnson
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Bernardo Gonzalez
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In my case. I'm going to wait to play the game at least once. If the game mechanics are amazing, then I would think of buying it. The art is so bad that the only way I'll buy it is if the game is amazing. So far, it is ok, new mechanics, new learnings. Hopefully UD will re-issue it with better art. Yes, I like pretty pictures, , but even if I did not, it seems (not saying that it is so), that they are banking on fandom to have a low art budget (and I'll be fuming every time I would play it).

BAG
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Joel Wolski
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I would guess that UD figured the Firefly name would sell the game and wanted to focus more on the BT franchise because they felt it needed the push. Just a theory though.
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Russell Malo
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jwski wrote:
I would guess that UD figured the Firefly name would sell the game and wanted to focus more on the BT franchise because they felt it needed the push. Just a theory though.


This was my thought exactly.
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Matt Steski
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Honestly, I like the Legendary Encounters: Firefly box art a lot more than I like the BTiLC box. But then again, everyone's been complaining about the card art and with one or two exceptions I've been enjoying that too. I guess I'm just easy to please.

 
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John W
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Gislef wrote:

But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.




With art like that there's not much to be selling lol.
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Brian M
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What the...?

Oh my...that art looks terrible!
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Joel Wolski
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Wrightboy wrote:
Gislef wrote:

But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.




With art like that there's not much to be selling lol.

Honestly, I can't even tell who half those people are supposed to be. The only reason I have any clue is that I recognize the scenes from the show.
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Steve Cohn
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I'm wondering about timing for the license. Maybe they only had until date X to get a published game out the door, so they rushed it? This gives me hope there may (I truly hope) be a future "updated" release with new images... One can hope?

I mean, jwski hit it on the head, these images orange_rhino posted are recognizable only from the scenes in the show/movie. And we know those scenes so well!

examples:
top row, center card. That's clearly from the time Mal screamed "Stella!" after taking a hit from Crow's hooked blade, like he was enacting a scene from "A Streetcar Named Desire". Because people 500-ish years in the future will do that sometimes.

second row, left card, that time River tried to bite Inara, because of...reasons. I'm guessing because in the Avatar7 card, Inara looks like a she-goblin hiding in the dark. Honestly, if that version of Inara tried to hold me, I'd bite her arm, too.

bottom row, right card, from the post-Serenity episode, that scene where they tried to bring Wash back from the dead, like Frankenstein's Monster.

Ah, memories.
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Tom Eklund
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Gislef wrote:

I like Firefly as a game more than Big Trouble. But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.


I think the reason is clear. Legendary Marvel system will always be more popular but Legendary Alien system will always be better. I'm buying Firefly for sure (I think the art is OK) but I'm not buying Big Trouble..
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Steve Crow
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Jasnis wrote:
In my case. I'm going to wait to play the game at least once. If the game mechanics are amazing, then I would think of buying it. The art is so bad that the only way I'll buy it is if the game is amazing. So far, it is ok, new mechanics, new learnings. Hopefully UD will re-issue it with better art. Yes, I like pretty pictures, , but even if I did not, it seems (not saying that it is so), that they are banking on fandom to have a low art budget (and I'll be fuming every time I would play it).BAG


I've played several times now, and I and the people wouldn't say that the game is anywhere close to "amazing." It's good, and it has some unique things that make it more... Firefly-ish.

As a simulator of the TV show, the game. But if you want to do anything other than the TV show... well, eh. With Marvel, there are lots of different ways you can merge heroes, and villains, and masterminds, and schemes. With Predator, you can just play a bunch of Predator hunting down humans. Yeah, those humans are going to include Arnuhld or Glover every time, but at least there's some variety in what you have to deal with to get to them, there are alternative "secondary" win conditions, different mercenaries, a Predator may die and blow up the landscape, and so on.

With Firefly, you are absolutely going to do what was done in the episode, or you'll lose. There's a little bit of variation with Side Jobs, and the order that you encounter stuff will most likely be different. You can rearrange the order of episodes, but they're each mostly self-contained. Every time you play "Serenity (2)," you're going to defeat Patience and Dobson. Or you'll fail. That's it. It's a recreation. And it's a very good recreation.
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Steve Crow
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jwski wrote:
I would guess that UD figured the Firefly name would sell the game and wanted to focus more on the BT franchise because they felt it needed the push. Just a theory though.


Judging from what I saw at GenCon, though, that's not the case. Or maybe it's what UD thought would occur, but it isn't what happened. BT sales were outpacing Firefly sales every time I came by. You could see what people were buying, you could see what was going off the shelves and what wasn't.
 
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Steve Crow
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Azikin wrote:
I think the reason is clear. Legendary Marvel system will always be more popular but Legendary Alien system will always be better. I'm buying Firefly for sure (I think the art is OK) but I'm not buying Big Trouble..


I don't think any particular Legendary game is "better" than any other. I think they do different things. I think Marvel does the comic book thing pretty well (better than DC Heroes), and Alien does the Alien movie adaptation thing pretty well.
 
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Lawrence
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Wrightboy wrote:
Gislef wrote:

But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.




With art like that there's not much to be selling lol.


Seeing this image just brought the game off of my "maybe I'll try it someday" list to... "HELL NO".

Seriously, how did any of these images pass their quality checks? I thought the avatar images were bad, but these are on a whole other level of horrible.
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Adrian Bachnivsky
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Gislef wrote:
jwski wrote:
I would guess that UD figured the Firefly name would sell the game and wanted to focus more on the BT franchise because they felt it needed the push. Just a theory though.


Judging from what I saw at GenCon, though, that's not the case. Or maybe it's what UD thought would occur, but it isn't what happened. BT sales were outpacing Firefly sales every time I came by. You could see what people were buying, you could see what was going off the shelves and what wasn't.


This was my experience, too. At the end of the first two days, tons of copies of Firefly on UD's shelves, no BTiLC.

I think the major issue is that BT fits the theme of Legendary PERFECTLY while Firefly is an odd fit, not to mention there's a glut of shitty Firefly games and merchandise already out. For Legendary Encounters, I was hoping for something along the lines of The Thing or Terminator, which I feel follows the theme of the Encounters series better.
 
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Chris
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abachniv wrote:
This was my experience, too. At the end of the first two days, tons of copies of Firefly on UD's shelves, no BTiLC.

I didn't attend Gen Con, but the art would certainly have put me off. (It caused me to cancel my preorder.)

Not only was there not a general resemblance, which really any purchaser would expect from a licensed product, there wasn't even conformity in the several depictions of each.

Take the character "Wash" for example (click to enlarge):
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Bart Nijssen
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Wrightboy wrote:
Gislef wrote:

But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.




With art like that there's not much to be selling lol.


I kept on telling myself: "Nah, it's not as bad as everyone is saying. No, it can definitely not be THAT bad."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! It IS that bad! IT'S TERRIBLE!
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John
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I keep wondering how this was approved for final production. Yuck.
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Joel Wolski
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arkhamnative wrote:
abachniv wrote:
This was my experience, too. At the end of the first two days, tons of copies of Firefly on UD's shelves, no BTiLC.

I didn't attend Gen Con, but the art would certainly have put me off. (It caused me to cancel my preorder.)

Not only was there not a general resemblance, which really any purchaser would expect from a licensed product, there wasn't even conformity in the several depictions of each.

Take the character "Wash" for example (click to enlarge):

I don't know what you're talking about. The first one is obviously Alan Tudyk, followed by Val Kilmer, Charlie Sheen, and finally Michael J Fox. It's part of the director's cut.
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Steve Crow
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abachniv wrote:
I think the major issue is that BT fits the theme of Legendary PERFECTLY while Firefly is an odd fit, not to mention there's a glut of shitty Firefly games and merchandise already out. For Legendary Encounters, I was hoping for something along the lines of The Thing or Terminator, which I feel follows the theme of the Encounters series better.


But which Legendary? There's Legendary Marvel, and Legendary Encounters.

I think both games fit the set of game mechanics that were chosen for them. And the people I've played Firefly The Game with like Firefly The Game. IMO, it's the best of the Encounter games so far, for reasons I noted in my review of it.

Perhaps the problem is as noted, the glut of such games. Part of it may be something I've noted in the past when doing licensed products: sometimes fans of a show just don't like RPGs and board games based on that show. Look at how many Doctor Who, Star Trek, DC & Marvel comic book RPGs that there have been over the years. Just because someone will read a comic doesn't mean that they want to role-play a Marvel character.

And part of it may be that Upper Deck just can't do it justice. As noted, the cover art doesn't sell the product. Put Nathan Fillion on the box cover, you'd get some attention. But apparently they didn't have the likeness rights to do... well, anyone. I'm sure the game wasn't made on the cheap, but my guess would be that Whedon or Fox or whoever was charging an arm and a leg for the licensing. While the BTiLC owners... not so much.
 
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DOUGLAS BRUNDIN
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That is UNACCEPTABLE art for a modern boardgame. I'm not being a hater here. That's just a fact. The competition is so stiff nowadays (thankfully) that you can't come strolling along and dump a game that looks like this and expect success.

I'm ashamed.

After my initial excitement at seeing a firefly deckbuilder, I'm now moving this one to the junk bin.

Sorry Firefly. I do love you.


Bartjes wrote:
Wrightboy wrote:
Gislef wrote:

But UD sure seems to be under-selling Firefly.




With art like that there's not much to be selling lol. :p


I kept on telling myself: "Nah, it's not as bad as everyone is saying. No, it can definitely not be THAT bad."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! It IS that bad! IT'S TERRIBLE!
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Clyde W
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So bad.
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Xavier Domínguez
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I was hoping for this to be my entry point into the legendary (and deckbuilding) series, as I love Firefly. But theven art... I can't see Firefly in this...
 
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