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gary johnson

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So the subject says it all ...

But here are the details.

1. A Klingon ship begins a turn cloaked.
2. Immediately, player A turns the clix dial on the Klingon ship, so the ship de-cloaks.
3. Player A then declares a combat action and resolves a Weapons Test vs. a Shields Test by Player B's Federation ship.
4. Then player A moves the Klingon ship. (See Note A below.)
5. Player A does not do a breakaway roll. (See Note B below.)

Note A: The rule book says, "any Power Adjustment ends the ship's movement for the turn if the ship is currently moving" (pg. 13). (Italics mine.) So the ship was NOT moving when it did the Power Adjustment. So that means the ship can move later in the turn, right? So Player A moves the ship after combat is resolved.

Note B: The rule book says, "If your uncloaked ship begins the turn in a location occupied by any uncloaked enemy ships, you must make a Breakaway Roll before you can move that ship." (Emphasis from the rulebook.) Well, in the above example, the ship was cloaked--not uncloaked--at the beginning of the turn. So the rules seem to suggest the Breakaway Roll rules don't apply in this situation.

Really? Is that how everyone else would play the above example?

I'm not sure this is the intention of the rules. But I can't find anything about this is the FAQ. Help?

 
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Marco Schaub
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Don't read too much into the is currently moving part.

Page 10 of the rules states:

"Important: You must stop moving your ship if any of the following occur:
- ...
- The ship (or any other ship) takes an Action
- You make a Power Adjustment on any ship
- ...

Once you stop moving a ship (for any reason), you cannot move that ship any further this turn."

A ship does not have to move a tile first to be considered moving. So there is no Breakaway Roll because the ship cannot move.


Edit: I was wrong.
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gary johnson

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Thanks, Marco.

On one hand, your response is good common sense.

But on the other hand, the rulebook says you can move, make a power adjustment, take 3 actions, etc. "in any order you choose."

This seems to suggest the rulebook isn't very well thought out on this point. Usually, rulebooks are the bibles. And their word is interpreted strictly. But I guess in the case of this bible we shouldn't be fundamentalists, huh?

This seems to be the kind of discrepancy that some gamers (the contrary kind, we all know them) postively live for, in which they can quote chapter and verse from the rulebook and insist on the inviolability of the rulebook, as the first and last word on all questions pertaining to rules.

That shakes my faith a little in the printed rules. I may need to return to this forum frequently for additional insight on the rules.

Thank you very much.

 
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Chris
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Here's how we play it:

From the rules, p. 10:

"A ship does not have to move before taking other actions on your turn." Followed by an example of a ship taking an action, THEN moving. Therefore, a ship isn't moving until it's actually, er, moving - otherwise they'd never be able to take an action first and then move.

The point of the action/interrupt example to point out that if you've started moving you can't then take an action then continue moving. You power adjusted, took an action, then moved.

You do have to roll for Breakaway, however, since you began the turn in the hex and you're uncloaked (if you began the turn in another hex and were trying to move through it, it would be an Evasion roll).

At the time the rule is triggered (i.e., when you're about to move), you're an uncloaked ship. Before you can move, you must make a Breakaway roll. For clarity, it should probably say "If your uncloaked ship begins the MOVE in a location..".

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gary johnson

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Your suggested rulebook edit makes sense. I like it. Thanks, Chris.
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, I agree with Chris. Though I can understand how you interpreted, "If your uncloaked ship begins the turn in a location...", the way you did, that's not what it means. If you look at that sentence from a different perspective, it makes better sense (and I think I'm repeating Chris's reply), but consider this...

1) When you started your move, you were not cloaked. You were in fact, "uncloaked".

2) The rule you cited in Note B thusly does apply. Here's how it applies: (I'll put the actual rule in blue font)

"If your uncloaked ship..." - It was uncloaked (when it started its move).
"...begins the turn in a location occupied by any uncloaked enemy ships,..." - It did.
"...you must make a Breakaway Roll before you can move that ship." - Yes, then this applies, since your ship was uncloaked when it moved and it began its turn in a location with an enemy ship.

While Chris' edit would certainly clarify the rule, remember that this rule is in the Movement section of the rulebook, not the Cloaking section, nor the Turn Structure section. And since your ship was already out of cloak by the time it started its move, the word, "Cloak" was never a factor nor a consideration when following the movement rules. Thusly, IMHO, the rule works fine as written. Though again, I agree that Chris' edit would've prevented any confusion.

Anyway, I'm glad you're (hopefully) enjoying the game! Even with the release of Frontiers (which I own) and, Ascendancy (which I played at Gen Con), I still feel that ST:FC is the king when it comes to being a true, thematic Star Trek game. And therefor, still the best!


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Marco Schaub
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I agree with Chris and Barry now as well.
 
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gary johnson

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Hey, Barry!

Thanks for your insights on this situation.

Yes, I'm enjoying the game, with this caveat:
This is a challenging game to learn. The arrangement of information in the guide book strikes me as baffling. But I've now read it all over several times. I know how it's structured and can generally find what I want, although having the guide and FAQ PDFs on my phone, which allows to search for keywords while sitting at the game table, is absolutely essential. And throwing questions at the boardgamegeek audience is also essential.

I'm no newbie to complex Ameritrash style games, but Fleet Captains is tricky to learn. And if I can't rely on a fundamentalist reading of the rule book, that does shake my faith a bit. But I love the game's concept, so I'm willing to endure all the rules minutiae. After working jobs in Firefly the game for a couple years, I'm ready for an exploration game. That's what brought me to Fleet Captains, the hope that this game would truly reflect the Star Trek creed:

"... To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations ...."

That's what I wanted from a board game. Granted a board game isn't necessarily the best medium for producing that experience. But it certainly sounded like WizKids gave this concept a try. My initial response to the game? Too much combat. This isn't really what Star Trek is about. But playing the Romulans instead of the Klingons works better for the "exploration" route. My family would never play a combat heavy game, and they wouldn't like a Federation vs. Klingon session of Fleet Captains. But they might play a Federation vs. Romulan session. That might work. So I'll play the game by myself a couple more times and make sure I understand all the rules, and then I'll see if I can get my family to the game table.
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, there's as much - or not as much - combat as you desire. After all, this is a true sandbox style game! And also keep in mind that although the components cover both TOS and TNG, the game still obviously takes place before the treaty with the Klingons. So in that regard, the Klingons is the warring faction and want to fight! The Federation is the exploring faction (as you're looking for), and the Romulans are the Espionage and Subterfuge faction.

So while there was a significant amount of combat between the Federation and Klingons in TOS (define "significant" anyway you want), that doesn't need to be the case when playing Fleet Captains.
So when playing a member of your family, I think you're on the right track if you play Federation vs Romulans!

And you're right about the rulebook... if you look back at the early threads, you'll find plenty of comments about the odd structure of the rulebook, accompanied by many rules questions - many by me! But as you've noted, once you understand how the rulebook is structured you'll find that most rules are indeed in there. And if not, then most of the rest are in the FAQ.

BUT I'll also agree with you - and this frustrates all of us still - that there are still several unanswered questions which we as a community have sort of arrived at our own answers. Regardless, we'd like to see them answered officially and so are still waiting on an updated official FAQ after all these years - but aren't holding our breath!


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Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
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Also, just to add a point, and to hopefully not confuse things further, the bolded begins in the rulebook Breakaway quote in the OP is bolded to point out the difference between Breakaway and Evasion (where the bolded part reads moves through, rather than begins.)

Also, the "uncloaked" point is also to stress the difference between moving while uncloaked, and moving while cloaked, where you would not have to make either type of roll. The point is, moving while uncloaked triggers either a Breakaway or an Evasion.

Perhaps another way to word it would be thus: "If your ship begins the turn in a location occupied by any uncloaked enemy ships, you must make a Breakaway Roll before you can move that ship, if you are uncloaked while attempting to move."
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