Maciej Sosnowski
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At the end of the turn you change the regime counter from green to brown. What does the brown counter mean gameplaywise?
Are those tokens ever removed?
If USA has to keep 5+ troops in an overthrown regime what happens if terrosrist move more cells to such a region?
If the US preforms 3 ragime changes during the game, and there are no cells in those countries they should keep 5 troops in each country - meaning that they can't move their troops any longer?
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Szlachcic wrote:
At the end of the turn you change the regime counter from green to brown. What does the brown counter mean gameplaywise?

The green side of the token is a reminder if the end game is going to trigger this turn due to the deck running out, a green token means the country still counts as Islamist Rule for that win condition only (see 2.3).

Szlachcic wrote:
Are those tokens ever removed?

Both green and tan Regime Change tokens are removed when the Governance of a country becomes Good or Islamist Rule (see 7.4.3.1) (And you already know when green flips to tan).

Szlachcic wrote:
If USA has to keep 5+ troops in an overthrown regime what happens if terrosrist move more cells to such a region?

Then the USA can't perform any more War of Ideas in that country until their troops outnumber the cells by 5+ again (see 7.2.1.3). They would need to get rid of the cells by Disrupting cells out or by moving more troops in.

Szlachcic wrote:
If the US preforms 3 ragime changes during the game, and there are no cells in those countries they should keep 5 troops in each country - meaning that they can't move their troops any longer?

You can move your troops out of a country that you Regime Changed in, by removing the Regime Change marker (either by getting the Governance to Good or losing it to Islamist Rule) and then just regularly moving out (see ... um I don't know on this one it's just a regular movement rule, possibly 7.3 and read the whole thing?) or by Withdrawing (see 7.3.5).

Hope that helps!
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Cody Moultrie
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Matchstickman wrote:


Szlachcic wrote:
If the US preforms 3 ragime changes during the game, and there are no cells in those countries they should keep 5 troops in each country - meaning that they can't move their troops any longer?

You can move your troops out of a country that you Regime Changed in, by removing the Regime Change marker (either by getting the Governance to Good or losing it to Islamist Rule) and then just regularly moving out (see ... um I don't know on this one it's just a regular movement rule, possibly 7.3 and read the whole thing?) or by Withdrawing (see 7.3.5).

Hope that helps!


Just a couple of things to add. I don't think it's possible to do three regime changes at once. You need at least 6 troops on the troop track to do a regime change, and if you've already done two at least 10 troops are stuck in those countries. Actually, I just realized that with NATO you could do it. Definitely not recommended, though, haha!

You can always deploy out of a regime change country, as long as the 5 more troops than cells rule is followed. I misunderstood this rule at first and thought that any troops committed to a regime change were stuck there until the country switched to good/IR or a withdraw action.

Incidentally, this thread made me realize an extra benefit of the NATO card. Usually, even if all cells have been removed from a RC country, the US is at a disadvantage because they will be down one card (at least) per turn. With NATO, you could deploy two more troops to the troop track while in a RC country. Your troops would be low intensity and you'd get to draw your full hand of cards each turn. In my opinion, one of the worst parts about regime change is the hand size limitation, so NATO is much more helpful than I originally thought!

Edit. Oops, I've been playing a bit wrong. See the next comment for the correction.
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svasongha wrote:
Incidentally, this thread made me realize an extra benefit of the NATO card. Usually, even if all cells have been removed from a RC country, the US is at a disadvantage because they will be down one card (at least) per turn.

Sorry but that's incorrect, it's only when you use one of those troops from the relevant box that you reduce the number of cards drawn (see 4.7.3). So if you can deploy 5 troops to the Regime Change country and have 10 on the troop track, you would still draw 9 cards per turn.
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Cody Moultrie
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Matchstickman wrote:
svasongha wrote:
Incidentally, this thread made me realize an extra benefit of the NATO card. Usually, even if all cells have been removed from a RC country, the US is at a disadvantage because they will be down one card (at least) per turn.

Sorry but that's incorrect, it's only when you use one of those troops from the relevant box that you reduce the number of cards drawn (see 4.7.3). So if you can deploy 5 troops to the Regime Change country and have 10 on the troop track, you would still draw 9 cards per turn.


Ha ha, thanks! See, this is one reason why I comment and subscribe to threads like this. You never what little tidbit of information will be shared!

What NATO does allow you to do, which is potentially helpful, is wage war in a Regime Change country and also deploy troops somewhere else to disrupt cells, all while keeping the troop marker in the low intensity box. I like it.
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Andy Latto
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svasongha wrote:
Matchstickman wrote:
svasongha wrote:
Incidentally, this thread made me realize an extra benefit of the NATO card. Usually, even if all cells have been removed from a RC country, the US is at a disadvantage because they will be down one card (at least) per turn.

Sorry but that's incorrect, it's only when you use one of those troops from the relevant box that you reduce the number of cards drawn (see 4.7.3). So if you can deploy 5 troops to the Regime Change country and have 10 on the troop track, you would still draw 9 cards per turn.


Ha ha, thanks! See, this is one reason why I comment and subscribe to threads like this. You never what little tidbit of information will be shared!

What NATO does allow you to do, which is potentially helpful, is wage war in a Regime Change country and also deploy troops somewhere else to disrupt cells, all while keeping the troop marker in the low intensity box. I like it.

I guess this is just barely possible, if the Terrorists move all of their cells out of the regime change country. You could move in with 6 troops, then add 2 Nato troops, then deploy two troops to a different country you want to disrupt in, then deploy one troop back to the troop track. But you have to keep 5 more troops than cells in the Regime change country, so this is only possible if there are no cells at all in the Regime change country. While sometimes it's right for the Terrorists to move all their cells out once Regime change starts, I often find it more effective to fight the regime change. The US can disrupt and put your troops back on the troop track, but it takes you one op to get a cell back into the RC country, and if you can keep the country at poor, it takes the US 3 ops to get rid of it (since two 3-op disrupt operations can get rid of 2 troops). Meanwhile, you can get a constant stream of plots going, and unless the US can afford to alert them all, this will keep the terrorist funding up, keep the country at poor, freeze troops in the country to give you a card advantage, and reduce US prestige to compensate for the prestige gains from disrupting.
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Cody Moultrie
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andylatto wrote:

I guess this is just barely possible, if the Terrorists move all of their cells out of the regime change country. You could move in with 6 troops, then add 2 Nato troops, then deploy two troops to a different country you want to disrupt in, then deploy one troop back to the troop track. But you have to keep 5 more troops than cells in the Regime change country, so this is only possible if there are no cells at all in the Regime change country. While sometimes it's right for the Terrorists to move all their cells out once Regime change starts, I often find it more effective to fight the regime change. The US can disrupt and put your troops back on the troop track, but it takes you one op to get a cell back into the RC country, and if you can keep the country at poor, it takes the US 3 ops to get rid of it (since two 3-op disrupt operations can get rid of 2 troops). Meanwhile, you can get a constant stream of plots going, and unless the US can afford to alert them all, this will keep the terrorist funding up, keep the country at poor, freeze troops in the country to give you a card advantage, and reduce US prestige to compensate for the prestige gains from disrupting.


Yeah, that NATO scenario wouldn't be very common and yes, the Jihadist player usually wants to keep cells in a Regime Change country for the reasons you listed.

One relatively common action taken in our games is for the cells in Afghanistan to rush to Pakistan and try to get those WMDs in the first or second turn. If the cells leave a regime changed Afghanistan, then I could see a scenario where troops were deployed to Pakistan, NATO played, and troops deploy back to the troops track from Afghanistan. This would allow the US to have troops in Pakistan, making it much more difficult for the Jihadists to Major Jihad, continue the war in Afghanistan, and troops are low intensity.

I doubt this would happen often, and whether or not it would be the best option would definitely depend on what cards were available, but the fact that it's possible makes NATO a slightly better card. Of course, there are probably fringe cases that can be made for a lot of cards that make them slightly better. These card interactions are one reason why this game is so great!
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Andy Latto
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svasongha wrote:

Yeah, that NATO scenario wouldn't be very common and yes, the Jihadist player usually wants to keep cells in a Regime Change country for the reasons you listed.

One relatively common action taken in our games is for the cells in Afghanistan to rush to Pakistan and try to get those WMDs in the first or second turn. If the cells leave a regime changed Afghanistan, then I could see a scenario where troops were deployed to Pakistan, NATO played, and troops deploy back to the troops track from Afghanistan. This would allow the US to have troops in Pakistan, making it much more difficult for the Jihadists to Major Jihad, continue the war in Afghanistan, and troops are low intensity.

I often play this general strategy with the Jihadists, but I pretty much never move all the cells out of Afghanistan. If you move all the cells out, you can no longer recruit in Afghanistan, and having a place you can recruit without needing to roll is really valuable. So while I will often move all but one out, I almost always keep one cell in Afghanistan.
 
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Maciej Sosnowski
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Thanks for the answers.
I didn't know I can remove brown tokens thus the confusion.
I had a situation where I had no cells ina a country after RC so I had to have 5 troops there and I thought they are stranded as the brown token remained.
One rule that I missed and it changed everything.

Thanks!
 
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