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Subject: Secrecy, vipers and more. rss

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Robert Rosenbaum
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I have a few questions regarding the base game and all the expansions.

1# From the official faq: "If a player is hoping that another player has a specific Skill Card ability, he may ask other players."

This applies to ALL players or just the current player? The one that is asking the question.
What if I'm the current player and I'm thinking about what I should do. Then another player asks if someone has strategic planning. Two players says 'yes' and they are already discussing some tactics. Now I can't ask if someone has a specific card, because using that more than once is abusing the rule?
Should I limit this rule to just the current player, so that only he/she can ask?
Should I limit this rule to just once per turn? It's a bit of a gray area this.

2# A player may move from a viper to the hanger deck. A player may also choose to move to any location on Galactica, Pegasus etc. He must discard one skill card.

If I'm piloting a viper when the fleet jumps, can I move to any location or do I have to go to the hangar deck?

3# Can I move to any location from a viper using an action? Because one action when using a viper is called "move a viper."

I.e. Starbuck is piloting a viper.
Movement step: Move to adjacent space area.
Action 1: Shoot a raider.
Action 2: Move to colonial-1 (discard 1 skill card)

4# A rule from Daybreak about assault raptors says: "Players cannot choose to place this assault raptor on the board during the “Set Up Ships” step of setup."

Does this apply to Cylon Attack Crisis cards as well? Since step 2# on such a card is called "Setup".

5# Can Cally use her 'quick fix' ability more than once per turn?

I.e. using admiral's quarter and later drawing a crisis card with a skill check.

6# When making a loyalty deck, the Exodus and Daybreak rule books says: "*Add one additional card from the “You Are Not a Cylon” deck for each of the following: +1 card if using the Exodus expansion."

What does "using the Exodus expansion" mean exactly?

If I use the base game, Daybreak and Gaeta, am I using the Exodus expansion now? Why should I add another loyalty card in this situation? Doesn't this give the humans an advantage, since there's a chance one Cylon Loyalty card remains in the deck?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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1# It doesn't need to be the current player, it can be any player who's performing an action or task. If you need to know to make your decision,
you can say "will someone help Strategic Plan X?" But the alternative needs to a real choice, you can't ask for every remote possibility.

2# During the movement step (or in a move from Executive Order) you can discard a card to land on any non-hazardous location. When the fleet jumps you land for free in the Hangar Deck (and nowhere else).

3# You can activate your viper to move as an action. That moves your viper to an adjacent space area. You cannot land the viper as an action.

4# Assault Raptor is a valid target when a rule calls for a Viper, but you cannot use this equivalence during setup. I think after game setup it can be chosen. (Including Apollo's initial launch as an explicit example given in the rules IIRC.) (But we don't play with CAC.)

5# Does Quick Fix say it is once per turn? (It does not, only "On your turn,", so if Cally has more than one skill check during her turn, she can use Quick Fix on all of them.)

6# Required by the rules if you use Exodus components other than characters. By house-rules practically required when you use the Divided Loyalties module (Personal Goals and Final Five). Otherwise optional.
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Josh
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I'll do my best:

1: Anyone can ask this question any time, but just generally don't abuse it, like asking about every single card by name.

2: When the fleet jumps, you automatically go to the Hangar Deck only.

3: When a viper moves in Space, it must move to an adjacent Space area.

(( Questions 4 and 5 would require me to look more closely at rulebooks and card texts. ))

6: "Using the Exodus expansion", in this case, basically means "Using the Exodus Execution rules", where you draw a new loyalty card when adding a new character after an execution.
If you're using Pegasus Executions, or no Executions at all, then don't add the extra card.

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Carl Bussema
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Aside from the specific case of the 2 vipers placed on the board at game setup, you may freely chose "assault raptor" any time any card or effect says "viper." This includes Pilot Apollo's starting location (he may start in an assault raptor; it is just the two vipers that are placed on the board that must be basic vipers) and all Cylon Attack Crises.
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ackmondual
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Reffy wrote:
I have a few questions regarding the base game and all the expansions.

1# From the official faq: "If a player is hoping that another player has a specific Skill Card ability, he may ask other players."

This applies to ALL players or just the current player? The one that is asking the question.

ALL players. Players should respond with yes or no. Not how many they have, nor their strengths

Reffy wrote:
What if I'm the current player and I'm thinking about what I should do. Then another player asks if someone has strategic planning. Two players says 'yes' and they are already discussing some tactics. Now I can't ask if someone has a specific card, because using that more than once is abusing the rule?

My groups have been lax about that, saying "oh, you're playing a 5-SP? Let me play my 3-SP, even though I believe if they're both SP, the first SP at strength 5 should've been the one used.

Reffy wrote:
Should I limit this rule to just the current player, so that only he/she can ask?
If players aren't using this to find out what's in a person's hand, then there should be no need to do so.
Reffy wrote:
Should I limit this rule to just once per turn? It's a bit of a gray area this.
Ditto with before. If secrecy is being abused to find out more info than not, then you may want to implement this

Reffy wrote:
2# A player may move from a viper to the hanger deck. A player may also choose to move to any location on Galactica, Pegasus etc. He must discard one skill card.

If I'm piloting a viper when the fleet jumps, can I move to any location or do I have to go to the hangar deck?

Hangar Deck.

You only get to move to any location if it's done as part of a move/movement (see below)

Reffy wrote:
3# Can I move to any location from a viper using an action? Because one action when using a viper is called "move a viper."

I.e. Starbuck is piloting a viper.
Movement step: Move to adjacent space area.
Action 1: Shoot a raider.
Action 2: Move to colonial-1 (discard 1 skill card)
Not possible. Note the distinction between Move and Action for a pilot in space...

On your Movement step, or moving off an XO...
**Move a viper from one space sector to an adjacent one
--discard a skill card to move to any location (that you normally could)

On your Action step, or an action off an XO...
**Move a viper from one space sector to an adjacent one
--attack a cylon ship in the same space sector as your viper
--do an effect that says ACTION, like from a skill card, or your character sheet

Once you get to the "action" part, moving between vessels is no longer an option

Reffy wrote:
4# A rule from Daybreak about assault raptors says: "Players cannot choose to place this assault raptor on the board during the “Set Up Ships” step of setup."

Does this apply to Cylon Attack Crisis cards as well? Since step 2# on such a card is called "Setup".
Go with a1bert's response there

Reffy wrote:
5# Can Cally use her 'quick fix' ability more than once per turn?

I.e. using admiral's quarter and later drawing a crisis card with a skill check.
Yes, this works

Reffy wrote:
6# When making a loyalty deck, the Exodus and Daybreak rule books says: "*Add one additional card from the “You Are Not a Cylon” deck for each of the following: +1 card if using the Exodus expansion."

What does "using the Exodus expansion" mean exactly?
just like how Daybreak is its own expansion, so is Exodus. If you use that set, apply what you said when creating loyalty decks.

Reffy wrote:
If I use the base game, Daybreak and Gaeta, am I using the Exodus expansion now? Why should I add another loyalty card in this situation? Doesn't this give the humans an advantage, since there's a chance one Cylon Loyalty card remains in the deck?
As Felix is part of Exodus, you should add an extra Loyalty card. The main purpose is by getting a new Loyalty card that can now be a cylon card (YAAC), executing players can turn them into cylons, and tries to solve the problem with just Pegasus how executions were used as a Loyalty check.

If you're not playing with Conflicted Loyalties module from Exodus, you could stand to NOT add the extra Loyalty card, even with Felix or any other Exodus stuff.
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Robert Rosenbaum
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ackmondual wrote:
Reffy wrote:
If I use the base game, Daybreak and Gaeta, am I using the Exodus expansion now? Why should I add another loyalty card in this situation? Doesn't this give the humans an advantage, since there's a chance one Cylon Loyalty card remains in the deck?
As Felix is part of Exodus, you should add an extra Loyalty card. The main purpose is by getting a new Loyalty card that can now be a cylon card (YAAC), executing players can turn them into cylons, and tries to solve the problem with just Pegasus how executions were used as a Loyalty check.

If you're not playing with Conflicted Loyalties module from Exodus, you could stand to NOT add the extra Loyalty card, even with Felix or any other Exodus stuff.


This is very interesting. We always play with trigger happy (Cally's) in my group. This might make them think twice about shoot first and ask questions later.

Thanks to all for the quick replies.
 
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ackmondual
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Reffy wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Reffy wrote:
If I use the base game, Daybreak and Gaeta, am I using the Exodus expansion now? Why should I add another loyalty card in this situation? Doesn't this give the humans an advantage, since there's a chance one Cylon Loyalty card remains in the deck?
As Felix is part of Exodus, you should add an extra Loyalty card. The main purpose is by getting a new Loyalty card that can now be a cylon card (YAAC), executing players can turn them into cylons, and tries to solve the problem with just Pegasus how executions were used as a Loyalty check.

If you're not playing with Conflicted Loyalties module from Exodus, you could stand to NOT add the extra Loyalty card, even with Felix or any other Exodus stuff.


This is very interesting. We always play with trigger happy (Cally's) in my group. This might make them think twice about shoot first and ask questions later.

Thanks to all for the quick replies.
Hmm, I'd argue you should be thinking twice anyways. I've seen Cally execute her fair share of humans before. Bonus points where she managed to convince others that she really thought that target was human when it was BS. She knew he was human all along and was going to do it anyways

Losing a whole hand of skill cards and abilities can be painful in the right (err, wrong) situations.
 
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Victor Lesperance
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So... regarding the distinction of moving a viper as an action vs. as a movement. I was tempted to say that I've been playing it wrong, but in reality... 55 games in and that has never once come up.

There's plenty of times where someone uses the move as a landing so that the action can be to use the space moved to. But with the value of scout cards, hunting down more raiders, an XO, etc, I've never had a case where I needed to use an action in space - first - then returning to Galactica is the best next move. (Of course I can imagine such a scenario - shoot the last raider then land in an empty armory to start receiving XO's.) Yet, I'd certainly call such an example a corner case.

I say this because this revelation means there's a lot of tangled definitions for "movement" in this game.

There's "movement phase" with its "normal" rules.
There's "move" on an XO which is NOT "movement phase" but is identical except in name.
There's "movement" pre-req on skill cards which triggers only on an actual movement PHASE, but not on anything that's functionally equivalent, such as the previous definition.
Now, there's "move" on a viper which is "normal" rules with one exception.

But in 55 games definition 4 has never come up for us. Definiton 3 only came up once and I had to pull out rule books to shoot it down as [arbitrarily] illegal and so has never come up again. And if definition 3 didn't exist, there would be no need for definition 2.

Which would leave us with one definition.

So, just a thought, but is all the extra complexity worth it? From my perspective, every 3rd game or so, I'm teaching a brand new player. I do not - nor will I ever - teach a new player all 4 definitions. As it is, I just explain about 1/3 of the core rules, put them last in rotation, and cover the rest as we go.

Anyway, I'd posit that collapsing all 4 definitions into 1 would not affect most sessions, has no thematic downside, and makes the game a bit less fiddly.

Just thinking out loud.
 
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ackmondual
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vlesperance wrote:
So, just a thought, but is all the extra complexity worth it? From my perspective, every 3rd game or so, I'm teaching a brand new player. I do not - nor will I ever - teach a new player all 4 definitions. As it is, I just explain about 1/3 of the core rules, put them last in rotation, and cover the rest as we go.

Anyway, I'd posit that collapsing all 4 definitions into 1 would not affect most sessions, has no thematic downside, and makes the game a bit less fiddly.

Just thinking out loud.
Probably not, but rules are still rules. That said, I've let rules slide on more than one occasion, including but not limited to:
--Initial selection of 3 pilots in a row
--people showing their super crisis cards to another cylon
--going out of order on skill checks
--Letting people undo die rolls
--reading off text on cards that are supposed to be protected by secrecy rules, as a new player was having a difficult time with it

I strive to enforce the rules as much as possible, but when something slips by in the name of convenience, speed, and yes, sometimes malicious intent, the sky didn't fall, the earth didn't implode, and the show didn't get cancelled.

.

That said, allowing Movement abilities off an XO can be OP-ed*.
1) No one should be using Critical Situation off an XO or State Of Emergency.
2) Full Throttle works as an Action or Movement anyways
3) Preventative Policy can be strong though
4) Leoben's and Caprica 6's specials are pretty strong
5) Cavil's OPG can backfire or really help

However, people don't XO Cylon Leaders anyways


* Although to be frank, I wouldn't mind allowing this, as they are difficult enough to use as is. Perhaps add a stipulation that they can be used in this matter, but require a discard of a skill card as well.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Honestly as a house rule, I see no problem with just consolidating into two:
1. Actual movement step occurs only your turn
2. All other movement

What you need to remember is that moving a Viper during an action step is not actually movement, it's a special action you can take while piloting a viper. Effectively, while piloting a viper, you gain the following abilities:

Movement: Discard a skill card to land on any human ship in any non-hazardous location.
Movement or Action: Move to an adjacent sector. (If piloting a Mk VII Viper, you may move two sectors.)
Action: Attack a Cylon ship in your sector.
Action: Cylon Fleet Module only Escort a civilian ship in your sector.
 
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