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Subject: Trog Nest in 4 player game rss

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Zackary Collins
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Just a quick question. In a 4-player game, would there ever be a time that a Trog Nest token would come out into play (besides maybe a special card or ability, I haven't read through all of them yet.) From what I understand the Nest tokens come out when neutral Trogs battle in a 2 or 3 player game but not in a 4 player game.
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Grant Rodiek
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MasterKickface wrote:
Just a quick question. In a 4-player game, would there ever be a time that a Trog Nest token would come out into play (besides maybe a special card or ability, I haven't read through all of them yet.) From what I understand the Nest tokens come out when neutral Trogs battle in a 2 or 3 player game but not in a 4 player game.


The orange Trog Nest token should not be used. Many Trog Skills use the Trog War Party (green).
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Zackary Collins
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Ok thanks that's what I thought.
 
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Lance Ford
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Greetings. I came here intending to ask Grant Rodiek a question about interpreting the “Playing the Trogs: the changes for 4 player” on page 13, because this caused us some confusion.
However, after reading through the rules several times regarding Trogs and how to handle retreat in 2-3 player, and then in 4 player, and trying to formulate my question to show how the rules were confusing us, I sort of understand why the rules as written should be enough. But then... obviously, they weren’t enough, because we were confused. At this point, I don’t know if the fault lies with us, and we were just too thick to understand, or if it is just poor wording in the rules.

First, the rules as written:
Quote:
Page 11. Box F. RETREAT WITH UNITS
(WHEN LOSING THE REGION CONTROL OBJECTIVE)
The surviving Units of the player who lost the Region Control Objective must move to an adjacent non-Battle Region under the retreating player’s Control. If there are no such Regions, the Units are returned to their owner’s Reserve. Example: The Pilgrim player has to retreat and moves their own Units into the adjacent Feralas Banks Region, which Pilgrims control.

Trog exception: In a 2-3 player game, if the Trogs win the Region Control Objective, do not place a Control token, but place a Trog Nest token face down instead. Also, if Trog Units must retreat, remove the Units from the board and place a Trog Nest token face down in any adjacent uncontrolled Region. Trog Nest tokens add more Trog Units to the Region when revealed!

Page 13. Playing the Trogs:
Battles:
If the Region Control Objective is lost, the Trog player retreats units like other players. If this is not possible, they are returned to the Reserve instead of placing a Trog Nest token.

I think it’s the inclusion of “If this is not possible, they are returned to the Reserve instead of placing a Trog Nest token” that caused the confusion. It probably would have been easier to understand if it was left at
“If the Region Control Objective is lost, the Trog player retreats units like other players,”

Period.

Because the inclusion of “If this is not possible, they are returned to the Reserve instead of placing a Trog Nest token.” just makes it seem like you are now calling out an exception to what the other factions normally do, when in fact, returning units to the Reserve if there is no adjacent region you control is simply ONE of the things they do... which is already covered by saying “retreats units like other players”.

And while it’s inferred in the rules, I can’t find anywhere that it is clearly stated that Trog Nest tokens are not used at all in a 4 player game. So perhaps a better way to clarify would have been to say in 4 player, Trog Nest tokens are not used. Which is what you confirmed in this thread.. but is not mentioned in the FAQ v1.0, or the FullContentFAQ (last updated 11/25/16).

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Lance Ford
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Well, I just found that the Revised FAQ posted by shooshoo, and the Cry Havoc FAQ Overview posted by alder99, and the Unofficial FAQ by PeterM2158… contains the info that Trog Nests are not used in a 4 player game. So, thank you to those guys.

So that’s 3 out of the 6 FAQs that have it (and why are there 6 different FAQs in the file section? And when is the Official FAQ going to be updated? The first page of the Official FAQ says “I will continue to maintain this document as new questions arise to help future players.” But the last update to it was 19 AUG 2016.)
 
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Fito R
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The poor quality of the instruction manual has been very well documented. This particular issue, however, is not one of the more egregious. If it doesn't say you use them, you can safely assume you... don't use them.
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Mnty4rd wrote:
Well, I just found that the Revised FAQ posted by shooshoo, and the Cry Havoc FAQ Overview posted by alder99, and the Unofficial FAQ by PeterM2158… contains the info that Trog Nests are not used in a 4 player game. So, thank you to those guys.

So that’s 3 out of the 6 FAQs that have it (and why are there 6 different FAQs in the file section? And when is the Official FAQ going to be updated? The first page of the Official FAQ says “I will continue to maintain this document as new questions arise to help future players.” But the last update to it was 19 AUG 2016.)


Why are there six? Fans care and want to make their own.

Why isn't the official updated? I don't have access, else I'd do it. Otherwise, me, and fans, are here to help. And I created an unofficial content FAQ that I can maintain.
 
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Lance Ford
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Joou wrote:
The poor quality of the instruction manual has been very well documented. This particular issue, however, is not one of the more egregious. If it doesn't say you use them, you can safely assume you... don't use them.

Yeah, like I said, we eventually figured it out... just only after re-reading the rules several times. So in that instance I guess we fall on the side of "being thick" (didn't help that I just happened to check two of the FAQs that did not include that issue)

However, what then does it say about us that we didn't have any other problems with the rules? If there were more egregious issues that we had no problem figuring out... then... suddenly I don't feel so thick anymore.
 
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Lance Ford
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HerrohGrant wrote:

Why are there six? Fans care and want to make their own.

Why isn't the official updated? I don't have access, else I'd do it. Otherwise, me, and fans, are here to help. And I created an unofficial content FAQ that I can maintain.

Groovy... So the Unofficial FAQ posted by PeterM2158 is the unofficial official one then? (or would that be the official unofficial one?)
 
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Fito R
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Mnty4rd wrote:
Joou wrote:
The poor quality of the instruction manual has been very well documented. This particular issue, however, is not one of the more egregious. If it doesn't say you use them, you can safely assume you... don't use them.

Yeah, like I said, we eventually figured it out... just only after re-reading the rules several times. So in that instance I guess we fall on the side of "being thick" (didn't help that I just happened to check two of the FAQs that did not include that issue)

However, what then does it say about us that we didn't have any other problems with the rules? If there were more egregious issues that we had no problem figuring out... then... suddenly I don't feel so thick anymore.
Did you get the Trog Tunnels rules right? Cause I sure as hell didn't until the FAQ came out.

Still a bit miffed about it yuk
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Lance Ford
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Joou wrote:
Did you get the Trog Tunnels rules right? Cause I sure as hell didn't until the FAQ came out.

Still a bit miffed about it yuk


Yeah, that just made sense to me.. it's a Trog "structure", so it can't be (passively) activated if another faction has control of the Region.

There are a lot of things that seem really intuitive actually. The problem with Retreating was that the way it was written seemed to contradict itself.
"If the Region Control Objective is lost, the Trog player retreats units like other players. If this is not possible, they are returned to the Reserve instead of placing a Trog Nest token" ...making it sound as if placing a Trog Nest token WAS the thing to do when you lost the Region Control Objective in a 4 player game and you had an adjacent region.

I get why it was written that way... they were trying to show how it differed from the 2-3 player. It's just that, following the sentence it did, just made it initially sound like Nests really were supposed to be used in 4 player. It would have been much simpler to say Nests aren't used in 4 player.
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