Berney P.
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This post is a number of related questions.

1. Do resurrection effects (e.g. Fateful Resurrection, Spider-man, Iron Spider, etc.) fail if the card is not in a Victory Pile? In particular, if the card has been gained as a Hero or Artifact and is in a discard pile (e.g. Infinty Gems, X-Men 92, etc.), can it resurrect from there?
2. When a Villain or Mastermind Tactic has multiple Fight effects due to another card (example: Fountain of Eternal Life scheme), does the player choose which order to resolve them in, or is there a set order (and what is that order)?
3. When is a Villain "defeated", and when are "defeated" effects resolved? If a Villain resurrects, is it still defeated? If a Villain is gained as a Hero, is it still defeated?
4. If "defeated" effects occur before Fight effects, does Mind Control gain the Villain as a Hero from the city or from the Victory Pile (and does it matter)? If "defeated" effects occur after Fight effects, can Mind Control gain a Villain as a Hero if a Fight effect resurrected it? (It's now in the city (or fortifying a deck in the case of Iron Spider), not a Victory Pile. Can Mind Control find it anyway, or does it look for it only in the Victory Pile?)

EDIT:
This post seems to answer questions 3 and 4. That leaves 1 and 2 open.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Q1: I'm not sure what you mean. Could you give a specific example?

Q2: I believe that multiple Fight effects are resolved in the order that the active player chooses. My reasoning is that I can't think of any way there could be some kind of "set order".

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Adam Steele
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OP gave a pretty reasonable scenario for question 1, which leaves me a little unsure, myself. Specifically, we're talking about Fountain of Eternal Life, which gives Fateful Resurrection to all villains and Mastermind Tactics. Even Mastermind Tactics have an awkward one in regards to Shik-Lah's Deadpool. Honestly, I'd say it goes back regardless of where it is.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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But resurrecting happens at the moment of the fight -- it doesn't really matter where the card would normally go after the fight. It's worded like this in the rules:

“'Fight: Fateful Resurrection' means 'Fight: Reveal the top card of the Villain Deck. If it’s a Scheme Twist or Master Strike, this Villain reenters the city.'”

It doesn't say anything about it having to be in the Victory Pile. So if you're fighting an Infinity Gem with Fateful Resurrection, you would reveal the top card of the Villain Deck and if it's a Scheme Twist or master Strike, it would reenter the City.

Sorry if I'm just not catching on to the question.
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Michael Green
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randomlife wrote:
But resurrecting happens at the moment of the fight -- it doesn't really matter where the card would normally go after the fight. It's worded like this in the rules:

“'Fight: Fateful Resurrection' means 'Fight: Reveal the top card of the Villain Deck. If it’s a Scheme Twist or Master Strike, this Villain reenters the city.'”

It doesn't say anything about it having to be in the Victory Pile. So if you're fighting an Infinity Gem with Fateful Resurrection, you would reveal the top card of the Villain Deck and if it's a Scheme Twist or master Strike, it would reenter the City.

Sorry if I'm just not catching on to the question.


I think that is a pretty good answer to question 1 and I would agree.

Re Q2 I would say as a general principle, if the order is not obvious the current player chooses, though such instances would be limited to rare circumstances in which eg a scheme adds a fight effect. In most situations you resolve multiple fight effects in the order they are written on the card, eg see Ghost Deadpool
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Berney P.
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randomlife wrote:
But resurrecting happens at the moment of the fight -- it doesn't really matter where the card would normally go after the fight. It's worded like this in the rules:

“'Fight: Fateful Resurrection' means 'Fight: Reveal the top card of the Villain Deck. If it’s a Scheme Twist or Master Strike, this Villain reenters the city.'”

It doesn't say anything about it having to be in the Victory Pile. So if you're fighting an Infinity Gem with Fateful Resurrection, you would reveal the top card of the Villain Deck and if it's a Scheme Twist or master Strike, it would reenter the City.

Sorry if I'm just not catching on to the question.


Now suppose my deck is empty when I do this, and let's assume either: I can resolve the Fight effects in the order of my choice, or the Scheme adds the effects to the end.

I play Mind Control and Fight an Asgardian Warrior, choosing to gain it as a Hero (see Mind Control). I then draw a card from its Fight effect, triggering a reshuffle. Then the Fateful Resurrection fight effect from the scheme sees a Scheme Twist or Master Strike and tries to return the Asgardian Warrior to the city. It's somewhere in my deck, or possibly in my hand if it was shuffled to the top. Can it return?

--

Conversely, if "this Villain re-enters the city" can happen even if the card isn't in a Victory Pile anymore, then "gain this as a Hero" or "gain this as an Artifact" can too.

So if I can resolve the fight effects in any order, or if the Scheme's fight effects happen first, then a resurrecting Thor Corps or Infinity Gem can still be gained from the city (rather than the Victory Pile), right? (This doesn't help Mind Control, of course, since Mind Control happens at "defeat", prior to Fight effects.)
 
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Adam Steele
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You have some really solid points. I knew we'd get to why this scheme was confusing eventually. In regards to the Asgardian Warrior, I'll settle for a "do what you can" ruling. As another example of how this could turn up, let's say you're running Nick Fury, and only Nick Fury, in your deck. You fight the Destroyer, KOing all your S.H.I.E.L.D.s including Fury. If you have enough power left over to defeat another thing that KOs, you obviously can't KO any more stuff. The same would apply to Asgardian Warrior in the above scenario. No game is going to make you search your deck for a thing unless it specifically states that it will.
EDIT: Of course, it occurs to me that I'm kind of making up a rule there. I'd be much happier if it could be officially ruled that Fateful Resurrection only takes from the victory pile.
 
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Theorel Masheriel
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A similar discussion occurred on the Secret Wars Vol. 2 Rules forum.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1499526/fateful-resurrectio...

No conclusion was reached there either, and Devin did not chime in.

My inclination is to say that you can execute the effects in either order (because order is not specified).

My preference for clarity in all these situations is that you can't move a card unless it's where you "expect" it to be. i.e. defeating a villain you expect it to be in your Victory Pile. If it goes to the City, it isn't there. If it goes to your Discard Pile, it isn't there. If it isn't in your Victory Pile, you can't move it to somewhere else.

But ultimately, I think the rules here are not sufficiently well-defined to preclude multiple interpretations...until such time as we have an official ruling.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Okay, I get it now. You're basically asking what to do if a Villain has two (or more) Fight effects that are something like this:

Fight: This Villain re-enters the City.
Fight: Gain this Villain as a Hero.

If you do the first one first and put the Villain in the City, does the second Fight effect still happen and you just grab it out of the City and put it in your discard pile? Or does the second Fight effect fizzle because the Villain is no longer in your Victory Pile?

If you gain the Villain as a Hero first, what happens when you resolve the first Fight effect? Do you take it out of your discard pile and put it in the City? Or does it fizzle because the Villain is no longer in your Victory Pile?

My guess is that it doesn't matter where the card is when the effect resolves. Mainly because it doesn't actually say, "... this Villain reenters the city from your Victory Pile.” And this game has cards moving around everywhere, so I don't think it's that unusual to have an affect that causes a card to move from the City directly into your discard pile, or to move directly from your discard pile into the City.

But I think we need clarification from Upper Deck as to whether or not Fight effects fizzle if the cards they effect aren't where they would normally be when they are being resolved.
 
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Bryce C
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Quote:
Fateful Resurrection: On a Villain card, "Fight: Fateful Resurrection" means "Fight: Reveal the top card of the Villain Deck. If it's a Scheme Twist or Master Strike, this Villain reenters the city."
If a Villain resurrects this way, you still rescue its Bystanders and do its other Fight effects.
The Villain pushes into the Sewers and does any Ambush abilities as normal.
If a Mastermind Tactic resurrects this way, shuffle it back into the other face down Tactics.
If a Villain that has ascended to become a Mastermind resurrects this way, it stays a Mastermind and does not reenter the city.
Quote:
The Fountain of Eternal Life
Setup: 8 Twists. (1 player: 4 Twists.)
Special Rules: All Villains and Mastermind Tactics have "Fight: Fateful Resurrection."
Twist: A Villain from your Victory Pile enters the Sewers. Put this Twist on the bottom of the Villain Deck.
Evil Wins: When the number of escaped Villains is 3 times the number of players.
These are from the Complete Card Text thread http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1243890/complete-card-text-a...
Just so everyone can see what is being talked about here.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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It would be nice if Fountain of Eternal Life were more clear by adding something like, "All Villains and Mastermind Tactics resolve Fateful Resurrection before any other Fight effects they have." Or, "All Villains and Mastermind Tactics replace their Fight effect with Fight: Fateful Resurrection."
 
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Bryce C
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I feel like the order of fight effects shouldn't matter, but ultimately the Fateful Resurrection should override the other fight effect. So it would make sense to first trigger the Fateful Resurrection instead of dropping the card into your victory pile or discard pile.

It doesn't make any sense for a successful Fateful Resurrection too then leave the city and then go into your discard pile.

EDIT: In short, if a Fateful Resurrection is successful do not recruit it.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Right, it feels like the Fateful Resurrection should take precedence over everything else, if it's in conflict with them. Like, I would be fine with a Villain that had:

Fight: Fateful Resurrection.
Fight: Draw a card.

I can do both of those things, no problem.

I think I would be happiest if there were some kind of rule changes/clarifications that said:

After defeating a Villain or Mastermind, resolve the Fight effect on the Villain or Mastermind Tactic unless the Villain or Mastermind Tactic is not in the Victory Pile.

and

Fateful Resolution. If there are multiple Fight effects on one card, including Fateful Resolution, resolve the Fateful Resolution first.
 
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