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Subject: Lava Flows. rss

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Chris Sessoms
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Lava flow states "raise temp 2 steps and place this tile on either Tharisis Tholus, Ascraeus Mons, or Arsia mons (sp)" what happens if those places are occupied?
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Joe Martineau
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I would think the card is unplayable.
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Matt Smith
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I also wondered if a temperature rise of two steps results in a TR increase of 2. I think the answer is yes, but every example I looked at in the rulebook showed a single TR increase for a single temp/O2/ocean increase.
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Chris Wheeler
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RageGoblin wrote:
I would think the card is unplayable.


Or the lava flow destroys whatever is on the space.
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Jonathan Fryxelius
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If all those places are occupied, you can't play it.
And each increased step is 1 TR. This card gives 2 TR.
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Jacob Fryxelius
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LordJunon wrote:
Lava flow states "raise temp 2 steps and place this tile on either Tharisis Tholus, Ascraeus Mons, or Arsia mons (sp)" what happens if those places are occupied?


It can't be played.
Being able to perform a card's effects is mandatory except effects that * raise a parameter that has already reached its goal, * adds resources you can't collect, or * removes resources from an opponent and you can't or don't want to do that (Page 9 in the rules).

Raising the temperature 2 steps gives 2 steps of TR. That's why the cost is relatively high.

Cheers!
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Asaf Hamtzany
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And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?
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Jonathan Fryxelius
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All or nothing.
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Jacob Fryxelius
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UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.
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Asaf Hamtzany
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Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


I misunderstood the original question as if the card orders you to place 2 tiles in 2 of 3 locations.
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Sebastian Stückl
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Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).
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Cory Yates
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Bastinator1 wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).


Good question!
 
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Jacob Fryxelius
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Bastinator1 wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).


Yeah, this is an old rule that unfortunately went through all checks. This rule would lead to a number of frustrating rules questions, so it was removed. ERRATA: remove this sentence from the rules - tiles must be placed (unless it's an ocean and all ocean tiles have already been placed, per the exception rules on the previous page).

Sorry.
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Fryxen wrote:
Bastinator1 wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).


Yeah, this is an old rule that unfortunately went through all checks. This rule would lead to a number of frustrating rules questions, so it was removed. ERRATA: remove this sentence from the rules - tiles must be placed (unless it's an ocean and all ocean tiles have already been placed, per the exception rules on the previous page).

Sorry.


Well, that certainly seems to make more thematic sense to simply state if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card.

Perhaps in future editions it might be possible to put a small icon matching the special tile on the board, maybe in one of the corners, to easily and quickly determine if the tile can be played. Most of the other special tiles have enough leeway that it's not needed, but this one is limited to 4 tiles, so if you don't know where they are, you have to start looking or pulling up tiles to figure it out.

It's not a big deal, but every little bit helps.

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xavier hulin
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Fryxen wrote:
Bastinator1 wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).


Yeah, this is an old rule that unfortunately went through all checks. This rule would lead to a number of frustrating rules questions, so it was removed. ERRATA: remove this sentence from the rules - tiles must be placed (unless it's an ocean and all ocean tiles have already been placed, per the exception rules on the previous page).

Sorry.


Sorry, I don't understand now. You can't play the card if you can't place the tile ? It is correct ?
 
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Jacob Fryxelius
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el grillo wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
Bastinator1 wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
UAF1 wrote:
And if 1 of the 3 locations is free? You can play it for 1 temp increase (and 1 TR) or is it all or nothing?


Not sure what you mean. If there is an available legal area for the tile, you can place it there and get the full effect.
And yes, if there is only 1 step left of the temperature scale, then you do that 1 step and get 1 TR.
But if you can't place the tile, you can't play the card at all.


Hey Jacob, how come you are unable to play the card because you can't place the tile?
The rules explicitly point out (in the example text to B) that
Rules, page 10 wrote:
A tile must be placed if possible, but being
unable to do so does not prevent you from playing the card


According to this sentence, you can always play cards like these, but you may not get the effect if its dependent on the tile being placed (i.e. Mining Rights).


Yeah, this is an old rule that unfortunately went through all checks. This rule would lead to a number of frustrating rules questions, so it was removed. ERRATA: remove this sentence from the rules - tiles must be placed (unless it's an ocean and all ocean tiles have already been placed, per the exception rules on the previous page).

Sorry.


Sorry, I don't understand now. You can't play the card if you can't place the tile ? It is correct ?

You can't play the card if you can't place the tile. Correct.
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Luish Moraes Coelho
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Unless it is an ocean tile and all ocean tiles have already been placed.

If this is the case, you can use the card.
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Danny Perello
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luish wrote:
Unless it is an ocean tile and all ocean tiles have already been placed.

If this is the case, you can use the card.

I'm pretty sure this has changed to what Jacob said above: If you can't place the tile, you can't play the card. Unless I'm wrong, which is likely...
 
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Ken Chaney

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Relax wrote:
luish wrote:
Unless it is an ocean tile and all ocean tiles have already been placed.

If this is the case, you can use the card.

I'm pretty sure this has changed to what Jacob said above: If you can't place the tile, you can't play the card. Unless I'm wrong, which is likely...


I believe luish is correct. The erratum removed the exception allowing the play of a card requiring a tile placement that was not possible, but this restriction is still overridden by the general exception that cards may be played even if the terraforming parameter is already maximized. (Ocean placement is a terraforming parameter, maximized when all 9 oceans have been placed.)

See Jacob's post above:
Fryxen wrote:
(unless it's an ocean and all ocean tiles have already been placed, per the exception rules on the previous page).

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Michael Boucher
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Fryxen wrote:
LordJunon wrote:
Lava flow states "raise temp 2 steps and place this tile on either Tharisis Tholus, Ascraeus Mons, or Arsia mons (sp)" what happens if those places are occupied?


It can't be played.
Being able to perform a card's effects is mandatory except effects that * raise a parameter that has already reached its goal, * adds resources you can't collect, or * removes resources from an opponent and you can't or don't want to do that (Page 9 in the rules).

Raising the temperature 2 steps gives 2 steps of TR. That's why the cost is relatively high.

Cheers!


Wait a minute, I saw somewhere else on this forum that for cards increasing oxygen, temperature, and ocean placements players cannot increase TR unless explicitly stated to do so by the card. So now I'm confused.
 
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Örjan Almén
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barinthus wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
LordJunon wrote:
Lava flow states "raise temp 2 steps and place this tile on either Tharisis Tholus, Ascraeus Mons, or Arsia mons (sp)" what happens if those places are occupied?


It can't be played.
Being able to perform a card's effects is mandatory except effects that * raise a parameter that has already reached its goal, * adds resources you can't collect, or * removes resources from an opponent and you can't or don't want to do that (Page 9 in the rules).

Raising the temperature 2 steps gives 2 steps of TR. That's why the cost is relatively high.

Cheers!


Wait a minute, I saw somewhere else on this forum that for cards increasing oxygen, temperature, and ocean placements players cannot increase TR unless explicitly stated to do so by the card. So now I'm confused.


For raising temperature, oxygen level or place an ocean tile: you get 1 TR for each step you can raise the gauge/have ocean tiles left. When the gauge is maximized or the ocean tiles is all placed, you can play the card but you can't get any TR.
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Sam Carroll
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barinthus wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
LordJunon wrote:
Lava flow states "raise temp 2 steps and place this tile on either Tharisis Tholus, Ascraeus Mons, or Arsia mons (sp)" what happens if those places are occupied?


It can't be played.
Being able to perform a card's effects is mandatory except effects that * raise a parameter that has already reached its goal, * adds resources you can't collect, or * removes resources from an opponent and you can't or don't want to do that (Page 9 in the rules).

Raising the temperature 2 steps gives 2 steps of TR. That's why the cost is relatively high.

Cheers!


Wait a minute, I saw somewhere else on this forum that for cards increasing oxygen, temperature, and ocean placements players cannot increase TR unless explicitly stated to do so by the card. So now I'm confused.


You always raise TR when placing oceans, raising temperature, or increasing oxygen. If a card tells you to "raise temperature 1 step and increase your TR by 1", then you get 2 TR increases: 1 because the card says so, and one for the temperature rise.

What you're probably thinking of is that if a card tells you to increase a global parameter, but the parameter in question is already maxed out, you can play the card, but you don't get the TR for raising that parameter . . . because, you know, you didn't raise it.
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AJ Cooper
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spartax wrote:
You always raise TR when placing oceans, raising temperature, or increasing oxygen. If a card tells you to "raise temperature 1 step and increase your TR by 1", then you get 2 TR increases: 1 because the card says so, and one for the temperature rise.

In such cases, the card will include the orange flag terraform rating icon. This icon, and only this icon, indicates a TR increase that is not contingent on increasing temperature, oxygen, or oceans.
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Michael Boucher
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Alright, many thanks all.
 
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