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Subject: vs Legendary deckbuilder? rss

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v b
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I'm THIS close to buying this game as I love Shadowrun and this game seems to do the universe GREAT justice, but someone recently told me it is VERY similar to the Legendary Deckbuilder Games (specifically the Marvel one). I'd love to get some thoughts on this accusation to help me decide?
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Jonathan Meltzer
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Skrell wrote:
I'm THIS close to buying this game as I love Shadowrun and this game seems to do the universe GREAT justice, but someone recently told me it is VERY similar to the Legendary Deckbuilder Games (specifically the Marvel one). I'd love to get some thoughts on this accusation to help me decide?


I have played both...and I do not see the similarity. Not even sure HOW they would be similar. Did whoever told you that elaborate on it at all? I mean, they are both called deck-builders, but the way the decks are built and the way the game plays are very different.
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Sarandongo
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I got Marvel, Alien and Predator Legendary games and ended up selling them all. Shadowrun crossfire? I will never get rid of it. Whereas the later has a lot of strategy and tough decisions, the formers are more straight forward, easier to play, with obvious decision, they are all about the theme.
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Stephane Guibord
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Skrell wrote:
I'm THIS close to buying this game as I love Shadowrun and this game seems to do the universe GREAT justice, but someone recently told me it is VERY similar to the Legendary Deckbuilder Games (specifically the Marvel one). I'd love to get some thoughts on this accusation to help me decide?


On the larger scale of things, I could see why he said they were similar.

Both are coop deck building games. Mechanics are a little different though.

I could go into details of the differences (mechanics and thematically) between both games but the biggest difference is the level of persistence between games in Shadowrun. In Shadowrun, you earn karma (think experience) that you can accumulate to finally buy powers to make your character stronger. It's a little like a Legacy game because you take a sticker and put it on your character. It's supposed to be permanent. So your character evolved and grow in power in between games as he earns more karma and you can customize him with different powers. In Legacy, once a game is done, it's over. The next game reset (like the majority of games).

I think this is what set both games apart and what I like about Shadowrun. Both are great coop but there is a little something nice with growing with your character. I think the crossfire deck in Shadowrun is a little too swingny to my taste. Sometimes the crossfire event is just too big and will screw games entirely. It does add a level of randomness/unpredictability to your game but sometimes the event are so punishing that it will just screw you up. You have to be ready for this.

The High caliber ops expansion adds variety and seems to add cards to help the players get an easier time. It's still a very challenging game but this is how all coop needs to be or else you just lose interest.
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Mark Blasco

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If you are familiar with deck builders, they are both very different. Shadowrun is brutal, punishes you for any mistake, and you don't cycle through your deck very many times, so you don't feel the same gradual build up. Marvel is much easier, gives you a lot more variety, and you'll go through your deck a lot of times so you really feel it building up as you go.

Both games are a lot of fun. If you want to be kicked in the face over and over, Shadowrun is for you. If you like a game that's a bit more varied and allows you to win even if you didn't play 100% optimally, than Legendary is a better option.

Marvel Legendary has more variety and is somewhat easier than the Legendary Encounters games. You can tailor Marvel to be easier or harder depending on what combinations of cards you use, so it can be very hard as well, if you want more of a challenge.

If you want a game you can introduce to people and play, and everyone really enjoys their first playthrough, Legendary is a better choice. I feel like Shadowrun requires a couple of times through before you have much of a chance at winning, because you need to know what strategies to use for each situation.
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Orion Anderson
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They are as different as it is possible for two coop card games with deck building elements to be, which is very different. Basically, Legendary is a "traditional" deck build in the style of Dominion, and Crossfire is not.

Most deck buildings games share the following basic principles.

--You use the cards in your deck to buy better cards for your deck; strong play involves creating an economic engine where cheap cards generate money to buy medium cards which generate money to buy powerful cards.
--You draw a full hand of cards every turn; you don't need to worry about "running out of juice."
--You cannot save cards between turns. Cards you buy go into your discard and you don't know when you'll actually get to use them. Therefore, you buy cards that improve the average quality of your deck, or to improve the odds of drawing a useful combo in the same hand by chance.

Shadowrun throws all that out.

--Money doesn't come on cards. All your cards are attack cards, used to defeat enemies. Defeating enemies gives you money.

--You only draw two cards per turn from a 7-card starting deck. One you play a card, it might be a long time before you see it again.

--You (usually) start with more than 2 cards in your hand, and you can save up to 3 cards between turns. There are other ways to get extra draws. Deciding how to use your starting hand, and balancing getting things done now vs. keeping resources in reserve is a challenge.

--When you buy a card, it goes directly into your hand, effectively giving you a free draw. You can't play it on that turn, but you will be able to play it the next turn, and it doesn't count against the 3 you can save. This means that cheap cards may not be much better than the starter cards, but worth buying for the immediate boost

Ultimately, Crossfire might be better described as a hand-building game than a deck building game. Games are short and draws are slow, so each card is likely to get used only 2-3 times. Because new buys go directly to your hand, and because you can save cards, you generally buy cards that will combine with the cards you're currently holding to let you do whatever it is you need to do on your next turn. In some cases it may take multiple turns to assemble the big hand that will let you make the big play. Because your deck is very small, you can and should try to keep track of where every card is. There are *many* effects that let you discard cards to draw replacements, discard cards from your deck before drawing them, or return cards from your discard to your hand, so advanced players will sift through their decks to pull out the cards they need.
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v b
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THANKS EVERYONE THESE WERE GREAT ANSWERS!!! :)
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Andrii Chabykin
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Perenetre wrote:
I got Marvel, Alien and Predator Legendary games and ended up selling them all. Shadowrun crossfire? I will never get rid of it. Whereas the later has a lot of strategy and tough decisions, the formers are more straight forward, easier to play, with obvious decision, they are all about the theme.


+1. Sold Legendary, boring waste of time. SR:C - best game ever.
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Ian Simpson
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The other thing that makes Shadowrun more interesting for me is the different damage types. Because each player will tend to have an easier time getting past one damage colour, it fosters a much more collaborative atmosphere where you have to coordinate with the rest of your team to play damage in the correct order.
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Barry
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All good points above. I own Shadowrun Crossfire, but I do not own Legendary, but I've seen several playthroughs of each. There are couple of reasons for this.

Both ooze theme with their names, art, etc. However Crossfire actually feels like Shadowrun. Started as an RPG it was all about bringing a team together with different and diverse skills to finish the job. You would come up with a plan, then something would go wrong and you'd have to react. Crossfire does this piece of theme not just with art or named cliched items like the mono-filament whip, but with the mechanics. Something goes wrong (Crossfire deck) and you have to react. Sometimes it can be brutally hard and is about surviving, not about succeeding in the mission.

Legendary is a fun theme(s) too. I could even get more people excited about these games in my groups. The problem I have with them is that you don't as a player get to own a character. To be the best team player you might be picking up a hulk card to help out even though Bob over there has been building THE HULK deck. Sure you get some class or archetype crossovers in Crossfire but even that was in theme for Shadowrun. Traditionally it was a classless RPG. Your character was by default a multi-classed character. Picking up a skill card doesn't automatically make you watering down the Face Role in Crossfire, its just adding a trick up your sleeve when your Face Character is busy elsewhere. In Crossfire you always felt like you were building a character organically as you built your deck. In Legendary it feels instead like you are each building a parallel SHIELD team that uses the same characters. Somehow that isn't as much fun to me.

It's not without it's drawbacks though. Crossfire has a 2.8 complexity level, while Legendary says 2.48. To me they feel like even further apart, where Crossfire really shines is when you get that satisfying combo where you look like you are doomed but an amazing chain comes through that lets you play effects that build off each other. It takes some pretty thought intensive work to chain these together though. Therefore I have a hard time getting some in my various play groups to take on to the game as much as I like it.

So if you are looking for an easier game to teach or a more accessible theme, Legendary might be it for you, but for my money it's Shadowrun Crossfire all the way.
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Rob Davis
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I own almost all the expansions for both games and play both fairly often. Shadowrun is hands down my favorite game regardless of genre, but I still enjoy Legendary because they are very different. I think that others have already covered anything that i could say about the two.

I did want to address this point tho:

Nachofan wrote:
The problem I have with them is that you don't as a player get to own a character. To be the best team player you might be picking up a hulk card to help out even though Bob over there has been building THE HULK deck.

*snip*

In Crossfire you always felt like you were building a character organically as you built your deck. In Legendary it feels instead like you are each building a parallel SHIELD team that uses the same characters. Somehow that isn't as much fun to me.


I've seen a lot of people with this complain about Marvel Legendary and I guess they just don't get it. "You" are not supposed to be controlling a hero in the game, or playing as character (Legendary Encounters does that tho) you are telling a story - or if you want a more thematic explanation, you're watching a comic book story unfold. You can't think of it as "I'm Spiderman and I jump over here and hit that guy, then web that guy. Now I'm Wolverine and I'm going to attack that dude." No it's "Spidey climbs up to the rooftop and beats up Doc Ock while Wolverine is busy fighting The Blob in the bank vault."

Quote:
To be the best team player you might be picking up a hulk card to help out even though Bob over there has been building THE HULK deck.

This specifically is a horrible rookie mistake. If someone in your group is building their deck based solely around 1 hero, you're most likely going to lose. Yes, there are a few heroes that are built to work this way, the core Spiderman to name one and I suppose the Hulk too, but your best decks are built around the synergy between classes (colors) or ability combos.
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