Enon Sci
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rules wrote:

A hero player is not required to perform a move action in order to suffer fatigue to move.


This was tucked in away in the main rules, under Additional Movement (pg. 8, English rules).

Perhaps I'm being a touch daft, but I can't rationalize why this line was included. In essence, it's saying "You can take [bad thing] to generate [good thing], but you don't really need to do [good thing]."

What hypothetical situation might this nugget be applicable to?

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lukas Hejtman
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
mb
You can suffer fatigue to move without using move action, so you still have two actions, that you can use for two attacks or other things.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
A move action is where you declare "I will use one action to gain movement points equal to my speed"

Suffering Fatigue to move is "I will suffer 1 fatigue per movement point I want to have". This does not require an action.

The line is to simply clarify that the two are not connected.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle Pede
Canada
Abbotsford
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I don't think the others understood you. A hero could do that to get around being stunned from an OL card in basic 1. I banned this in my group so it stopped some problems we were having.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enon Sci
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Froggery wrote:
You can suffer fatigue to move without using move action, so you still have two actions, that you can use for two attacks or other things.


OH.. I see. When I read "in order to suffer fatigue to move" I saw the 'to move' as just a titular extension of 'suffer fatigue' (I read it as a singular block, like a title, 'suffer fatigue to move'). I didn't see that as saying you actually could move, just that is what the fatigue expenditure was for.

Doh!

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G N
United States
Carol Stream
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
InfinityBlack14 wrote:
I don't think the others understood you. A hero could do that to get around being stunned from an OL card in basic 1. I banned this in my group so it stopped some problems we were having.


Could you expand upon this a little more. I am curious to what kind of problems you were having? Essentially all stunned does is take away one of your two actions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle Pede
Canada
Abbotsford
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
burrfoot wrote:
InfinityBlack14 wrote:
I don't think the others understood you. A hero could do that to get around being stunned from an OL card in basic 1. I banned this in my group so it stopped some problems we were having.


Could you expand upon this a little more. I am curious to what kind of problems you were having? Essentially all stunned does is take away one of your two actions.


There's one card in the overlord basic 1 that says "test awareness, if fail, that hero loses a movement point. If that hero can't lose any movement points, they are stunned". My hero group will move constantly without declaring a move action or fatigue, and if I ask, they know now that I have a trip type card, so they'd say move plus fatigue. It was frustrating, so I house ruled that you can't gain movement points from move actions or fatigue if you have remaining points. It's more punishment for my group for not declaring it. I believe there was another card that takes away a move action.

Example: they move with an action, then fatigue move. On their last step, you can use that card to stun and prevent a monster from being attacked.

Not sure if you understand my example as I had to type quickly.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A note you may find helpful:
If a figure ever becomes immobilized, or is instructed to "end its move action" (falling into a pit or having tripwire played) it loses ALL movement points, not just those that came from the move action.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
InfinityBlack14 wrote:
There's one card in the overlord basic 1 that says "test awareness, if fail, that hero loses a movement point. If that hero can't lose any movement points, they are stunned". My hero group will move constantly without declaring a move action or fatigue, and if I ask, they know now that I have a trip type card, so they'd say move plus fatigue.


There is another solution to this without having to implement a house rule.
Always ask, even if you don't have the card in hand, when they don't declare. They will get into the habit of saying ahead of time if they are using a Move action or suffering Fatigue to move, or both. It should never be a mystery ahead of time for you.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mlai00 Mlai00
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
zaltyre wrote:
A note you may find helpful:
If a figure ever becomes immobilized, or is instructed to "end its move action" (falling into a pit or having tripwire played) it loses ALL movement points, not just those that came from the move action.

I've had this question for a while: If Tripwire is played, can Hero use his 2nd action to move or is that lost as well? Also can he just change his 2nd action to do something else rather than move?

While I'm glad you answered it, I have to ask where you got that ruling from?

Also, where in the rulebook does it say a Hero player has to declare his actions in advance? As far as I can see, he only has to declare things during an attack action.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Hladky
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Currently working on Perdition's Mouth Board game content
badge
Imperial Assault - Imperial Player
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually this is the problem of the two cards. It is not explained in the rules how much one can exploit this card (either way) so each group solves this problem by their own.

Tripwire is clear when the person declares the move action, but you can announce two move actions. Will you lose the second action as well? Based on the text probably yes, but if you declare just one move action, get tripwired and then announce the second action (which is mentioned by the card) then you are not perfect, but you lose just the first action. Was that intended to be played that way?

The way how to work around those question is not to announce your actions at once, but one by one.

- just fatigue movement - announce each energy at a time before using it. If you want to prevent being stunned by the pit trap, add one extra fatigue to be able to sacrifice the movement point gained.
- fatigue + move action - announce the fatigue spending when you spend most of your movement points but leaving 1 MP to prevent pit trap stun you. However when you spent all your movement points and you have not declared the fatigue spending neither the second move action yet, the OL can interrupt to stun you with the pit trap.
- double move - declare just one move and based on the outcome you announce the second one.

It is a good idea to discuss with your OL the way how you will solve the interrupts so you do not need to talk that much. For example we (my group) agreed, that we announce the action and move the figures square by square waiting for the other party to react (both sides have skills to interrupt movement). If either side says interrupt, the movement immediately ends and we back-trace the movement to the place where it was possible to use the specific card. Also we enable declaring two actions and let the affected party to change the second one if the first one did not worked as planed. It prevents the pointless tension for not being able to use some cards by both sides.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
Mlai00 wrote:
Also, where in the rulebook does it say a Hero player has to declare his actions in advance? As far as I can see, he only has to declare things during an attack action.


You're probably right. I'm not going to comb through the rulebook trying to find the explicit "All actions must be declared" statement. However, I'm also going to point out that the rules don't say a lot of things.

-The rules do not state that a player may not pick up the dice, pick a facing and choose that after rolling because they didn't like the roll.
-The rules do not state that a player may not move figures controlled by the opposing player when they aren't looking.
-The rules do not state that players may not remove condition cards from their heroes without following the card's instructions for removal.
-The rules do not state that the overlord cannot substitute one monster card for another midway through a quest.
"The rules don't specify" is a slippery slope that can make pretty ridiculous situations happen.


Nothing that is decided in Descent is decided in secret without some kind of marker showing the results of the decision, whether it is a facedown Search token (placed by the overlord to represent the unique object for the encounter) or a facedown objective token. All game information is indisputable. (by design, not 100% successfully as you can probably find examples that had to be given additional rules or simply overlooked)

"I get this many movement points but I'm not saying whether it's from Fatigue or taking a Move action" would be nonsensical and render your cards that trigger from a specific action unplayable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mlai00 wrote:


Also, where in the rulebook does it say a Hero player has to declare his actions in advance? As far as I can see, he only has to declare things during an attack action.


It isn't in the rulebook, it's in the official FAQ, under "Movement".

In response to your question- if the hero has already perfored (gained the movement points from) both move actions, the both end if he is tripwired (or immobilized). If he has only performed one, tripwire does not prevent him from performing another. Immobilized does.

It's rarer for a hero to take 2 movement actions at the same time than for a large monster to do so. A hero might if he has a low speed (3) and the 4 spaces in front of him are occupied by heroes and/or familiars.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mlai00 Mlai00
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
zaltyre wrote:
In response to your question- if the hero has already performed (gained the movement points from) both move actions, the both end if he is tripwired (or immobilized). If he has only performed one, tripwire does not prevent him from performing another. Immobilized does.

It's rarer for a hero to take 2 movement actions at the same time than for a large monster to do so. A hero might if he has a low speed (3) and the 4 spaces in front of him are occupied by heroes and/or familiars.

So... even if he wants his hero to use 2 movement actions, an experienced player would always verbally announce only 1 movement action at a time, so that he doesn't suffer unnecessarily from a Tripwire.

Only in cases where it is not possible to stop in the middle of 2 movement actions, would an experienced player be forced to announce 2 movement actions at the start of his turn (and hope that the OL doesn't have a Tripwire).

Is the above correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Hladky
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Currently working on Perdition's Mouth Board game content
badge
Imperial Assault - Imperial Player
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is correct.

However with careful wording you can always prevent your two actions to be interrupted by tripwire (except for the rare cases where you are declaring double move through water or a difficult terrain).

Which leads to a home rule, that each action is considered to be announced in a sequence "when needed". This may make you vulnerable to the pit trap, however the player may announce different behavior (eg. "I am announcing two moves in order to prevent pit trap...").

It is actually not a rule change, it is a way how you the communication between the party and the overlord can be set in order to the game proceed faster.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mlai,

As mrakomor says, yes, that's generally the best idea. If you are not suffering fatigue to gain MP, that strategy (sequential moves) does open you up to Pit Trap at the end of your first action. You're always vulerable to pit trap when you spend your last movement point, there is not much you can do except always keep a spare movement point in the bank when you are moving.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.