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Subject: Leveling Up a party for a Module rss

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David Griffin
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Ok, so with a pointer to it from this forum, I went and downloaded Rise of the Revenant. Very nice piece of work, but it's not an introductory story right? The question is, how to create a party that meets the requirements.

What is missing right now is an introductory "module" or set of them to play in some order, so I guess we're going to have the problem of preparing one shot parties that meet the guidelines.

I can't do anything about my own personal skill level, but for RotR, it says the characters should have 2 titles (each?) and have at least 1 advanced action card (novice because that is what we have so far right) in their deck. So is that all there is to it, pick two random titles to give each character? Maybe let them pick a single green card and a single blue or green card to account for gear, and then pick an advanced card to substitute for an existing action card?

What do you think?
 
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Brian Torrens
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There is also Fury of the Fireborn that is an earlier module that is a bit closer to beginner level.
 
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Michelle
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Maybe let them pick a single green card and a single blue or green card to account for gear, and then pick an advanced card to substitute for an existing action card?

What do you think?


I'd do just the 2 green items. No advanced card, no blue items. If you start off too overpowered, the rest of the module can end up being too easy. There's a good amount of opportunity to get more loot (including merchants popping up) in the early parts of the module. You want to leave some room for loot improvement throughout the module.

Oh, and if you're doing a one-shot, there's no point in having multiple titles, since you can only play with one title active at a time. So either deal out a few randomly and let each player choose a single favorite, or just let folks pick their favorite from the get-go (multiple people can have the same title, that's fine).


Brian T wrote:
There is also Fury of the Fireborn that is an earlier module that is a bit closer to beginner level.


Fury of the Fireborn is just a module-lite w/ 1.5 rules though, and is getting a re-write, so at this point I don't recommend playing it. I'd rather wait for the full module with proper story, clearer instructions, and demon minis rather than orc and bug proxies.
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MM
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breegull wrote:
Brian T wrote:
There is also Fury of the Fireborn that is an earlier module that is a bit closer to beginner level.


Fury of the Fireborn is just a module-lite w/ 1.5 rules though, and is getting a re-write, so at this point I don't recommend playing it. I'd rather wait for the full module with proper story, clearer instructions, and demon minis rather than orc and bug proxies.


Right. Much like they did with Rise of the Revenant, Fury will receive the full module treatment. I don't expect the overarching story will change much, so, like Michelle, I'd recommend staying away to avoid spoilers and enjoy a fully baked experience.
 
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David Griffin
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I feel like the game needs a progression of modules from beginner to journeyman at least. Not necessarily a campaign, but at least a progression so you know what you can play first without getting slaughtered. Something to introduce you to the system.

At the least, I think there needs to be an equivalent to Shadows of Brimstone "Fistful of Darkstone" so you have something to play first and which you can use to teach. It should be fully fleshed out, or it should at least mention the decisions you need to make as players and some background information for how to make the decision.

I look through the story quests in the V1 book and the little book that came with supplementary story quests and I'm not really sure which ones are harder or easier so I'm not sure how to evaluate them for the purposes of playing first. That's confusing and off-putting. Not that they have to tell you everything as the module did, but just what the threat level is with a little guidance on what the decisions you need to make are with the information you need to decide.
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MM
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carbon_dragon wrote:
I feel like the game needs a progression of modules from beginner to journeyman at least. Not necessarily a campaign, but at least a progression so you know what you can play first without getting slaughtered. Something to introduce you to the system.

At the least, I think there needs to be an equivalent to Shadows of Brimstone "Fistful of Darkstone" so you have something to play first and which you can use to teach. It should be fully fleshed out, or it should at least mention the decisions you need to make as players and some background information for how to make the decision.

I look through the story quests in the V1 book and the little book that came with supplementary story quests and I'm not really sure which ones are harder or easier so I'm not sure how to evaluate them for the purposes of playing first. That's confusing and off-putting. Not that they have to tell you everything as the module did, but just what the threat level is with a little guidance on what the decisions you need to make are with the information you need to decide.


Agree!!

I really wonder if anyone who picked up JM content from Megacon at GenCon can comment on how Megacon suggests progressing characters into Journeyman. Is there anything in the box that tells buyers how to do it or gives guidance on how to make it happen?

Is this what the Module is all about? Taking novice characters to JM? Or do our parties/characters need to be at a certain experience level in order to enjoy the content? Anyone know first-hand?
 
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Brian Torrens
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carbon_dragon wrote:
I feel like the game needs a progression of modules from beginner to journeyman at least. Not necessarily a campaign, but at least a progression so you know what you can play first without getting slaughtered. Something to introduce you to the system.

At the least, I think there needs to be an equivalent to Shadows of Brimstone "Fistful of Darkstone" so you have something to play first and which you can use to teach. It should be fully fleshed out, or it should at least mention the decisions you need to make as players and some background information for how to make the decision.

I look through the story quests in the V1 book and the little book that came with supplementary story quests and I'm not really sure which ones are harder or easier so I'm not sure how to evaluate them for the purposes of playing first. That's confusing and off-putting. Not that they have to tell you everything as the module did, but just what the threat level is with a little guidance on what the decisions you need to make are with the information you need to decide.


I believe that they are grading the difficulty of the upcoming modules with their 1-4 skull rating so you can choose an adventure that is suited to your current partly skill level. That said, it would be really nice to have something along those lines for some beginner level missions to get a party ready for the transition to Journeyman level.

If you wanted to do a bit of "pre-work" you could probably use one of the stories in the first rulebook. Although I have not done so myself (still playing around with the quest cards), The Mad King or Common People are supposedly a good place to begin. If you can finish the third part, you can add a title to your hero.
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Mike A
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I asked Kenny this question at PAX East and his answer was to give the characters a green and a deck upgrade prior to starting RotR. Like many of you, I also find this a dissatisfying answer though, as I'd love an official campaign that takes your characters from starting items through a progression of increasingly harder challenges that level you up.
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David Griffin
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They might not choose to emphasize a campaign as such if that isn't part of their vision, but at the least they should do as stated above -- grade the adventures by difficulty and tell us what the characters need to have and maybe what experience level the players should have to tackle it.
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Michelle
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js379 wrote:
Why would one card swap be overpowered since that is listed as a requirement to play the module anyway?


I guess I should have clarified: the worry about being OP is just for the blue card. My advice for skipping the card swap is a time management thing. People will likely agonize over the swap choice, and if it's a one-shot, they won't have any reference for what is a good or bad card to swap in or out if they haven't played before. And frankly I think the card swap is a pretty minor change that likely won't be noticed in a one-shot anyways.
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David Griffin
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breegull wrote:
js379 wrote:
Why would one card swap be overpowered since that is listed as a requirement to play the module anyway?


I guess I should have clarified: the worry about being OP is just for the blue card. My advice for skipping the card swap is a time management thing. People will likely agonize over the swap choice, and if it's a one-shot, they won't have any reference for what is a good or bad card to swap in or out if they haven't played before. And frankly I think the card swap is a pretty minor change that likely won't be noticed in a one-shot anyways.


Yes, but if I were bringing in a player for D&D at 5th level, I wouldn't not level up his character from 1st just because it might take a little time right?

Presumably what SHOULD happen is that someone should be teaching the game (Me if I can just figure it out myself) and will advise the characters on which card to grab and what to substitute.

What would be nice would be if there was a page in the manual about each advanced card and it's value, use, and combos so you could choose wisely.

Now correct me if I'm wrong because I'm on shaky knowledge ground here, but when I watch MCG do this stuff, THEY are using the advanced cards and most of the powerful combos are ONLY useable with those advanced cards. Granted a new player won't have an idea of how to use them, but hopefully that is where the player teaching the game might be able to help them figure that out. This game is rough to learn without learning from someone but I'm working on it.

You know I thought it was excessive, but maybe MCG should go back and look at the manual for Earth Reborn and their interminable successive missions designed ONLY to learn the game. Each mission introduced a new set of rules. By the end you were pretty good at the mechanics of the game. Each one could be a 1 act quest (or even a 1 tile quest).

You might also want to give 1 extra one of these for each different character class. Call it the Myth University extension.
 
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Michelle
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I haven't studied every character's advance cards, but from what I've seen, a good portion of the 5 advanced cards per character are just repeats of existing good cards in that character's deck. I.e., IIRC the archer can add another orion's tears to her deck so she has 2 instead of 1.

But yeah, you'd of course also be perfectly fine letting/helping people do the card swap. I'm by no means an expert on the advanced cards...in my group everyone only has 0 or 1 advanced cards, and I admittedly am the type of person to agonize over which card to get rid of.
 
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David Griffin
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There are a lot of cards (like sprint or hustle) that are the same. It's really the "mechanisms" by which the various characters work that is the potential problem. I've only played 2 so far, but the Soldier's Rage and the Acolyte's faith work totally differently.

The Brigand has his shadows and I suspect the others have similar things to learn about playing them. It's cool and gives us some significant replayability, but it does complicate learning.

I'd agonize about it too. But I'm used to cutting myself off before too long because I know that I'm unlikely to make the best decision anyway, so I might as well make a quicker one!

The worst case of analysis paralysis I ever saw was a guy who prided himself on making the IDEAL decision. I ended up in a game of Yaquinto Fast Attack Boats, an album game that prided itself in fast paced action. That guy turned a game that is supposed to be quick fun into absolute torture. I hope I never meet him again across a game board.
 
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