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Subject: A couple rules questions rss

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Adolph Oliver-Nipples
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So far...

Satchels: The example states a unit moves and then throws the satchel to an adjacent hex. How is the unit marked? 'Moved' for moving? 'Fired' for attacking? 'Used' for moving and then attacking? And this costs only 1 Impulse?

Smoke: Says it lasts 2 turns. Is that the turn it comes in plus one more or the turn it comes in plus 2 more?

Cover: Can a unit improve it's position with 'cover' in rubble to a +4?

Thanks,
Steve
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Max Jansson
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Quote:
Satchels: The example states a unit moves and then throws the satchel to an adjacent hex. How is the unit marked? 'Moved' for moving? 'Fired' for attacking? 'Used' for moving and then attacking? And this costs only 1 Impulse?

Not entirely sure, but I think the example in the book is during two impulses. First impulse Move (mark as moved), next impulse Fire (mark as Used).

Quote:
Smoke: Says it lasts 2 turns. Is that the turn it comes in plus one more or the turn it comes in plus 2 more?

The turn it comes in to play plus one.

Quote:
Cover: Can a unit improve it's position with 'cover' in rubble to a +4?

From the rulebook: Cover attempts cannot be made in a Bunker, Wire, Roadblock or stream hex.
So yes cover is possible in rubble.

Quote:
Thanks,
Steve

Your welcome! I hope.
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Shayne Logan
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Max's answers are perfect
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Adolph Oliver-Nipples
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Evil_X wrote:
Quote:
Satchels: The example states a unit moves and then throws the satchel to an adjacent hex. How is the unit marked? 'Moved' for moving? 'Fired' for attacking? 'Used' for moving and then attacking? And this costs only 1 Impulse?

Not entirely sure, but I think the example in the book is during two impulses. First impulse Move (mark as moved), next impulse Fire (mark as Used).

OK, the example is unclear, thanks. AS an old ASLer, I would prefer it to say 'a squad moves adjacent on a previous Impulse'. But no biggie, thanks.

Quote:
Smoke: Says it lasts 2 turns. Is that the turn it comes in plus one more or the turn it comes in plus 2 more?

The turn it comes in to play plus one.

Just wanted to be clear.

Quote:
Cover: Can a unit improve it's position with 'cover' in rubble to a +4?

From the rulebook: Cover attempts cannot be made in a Bunker, Wire, Roadblock or stream hex.
So yes cover is possible in rubble.

I saw the rules quote but thought it may be an oversight. Again, as an ASLer, I have to stop making reality arguments in my head and just play the rules.

Thank you gents, having a ball so far!

Quote:
Thanks,
Steve

Your welcome! I hope.
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Adolph Oliver-Nipples
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Here's another question: ( or two I guess)

If a vehicle has an HE and secondary armament, can they be combined into one attack for one Impulse point or is the vehicle unable to move that turn having to spend both actions firing?

Wrecks degrade LOS, vehicles do not?

Playing through Gingerbread House as my first scenario. I am so enamoured of the system I intend to purchase Stalingrad tomorrow.

Thanks.
 
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Vance Strickland
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For 1 impulse point a tank can fire it's main armament and it's MGs. Separate die rolls though.

Correct, wrecks degrade LoS, vehicles do not.
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Shayne Logan
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Dukewilliam wrote:
Here's another question: ( or two I guess)

If a vehicle has an HE and secondary armament, can they be combined into one attack for one Impulse point or is the vehicle unable to move that turn having to spend both actions firing?

Wrecks degrade LOS, vehicles do not?

Playing through Gingerbread House as my first scenario. I am so enamoured of the system I intend to purchase Stalingrad tomorrow.

Thanks.


Glad you like it Adolph, thanks for your support.

Vance is correct.
The Main and Secondary are carried out as 2 separate attacks, they may not be combined like a group fire.
The attacks may be carried out on 2 different targets ( exception is with Op Fire where the attacks may only be used on target of Op Fire)

Yes Wrecks degrade LOS and functioning vehicles have no effect.
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Adolph Oliver-Nipples
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You guys are alright!

Here's another one: does it cost an Impulse point for a SPC to avoid melee?

Thanks,
Steve
 
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Jamm22 wrote:
Dukewilliam wrote:
Here's another question: ( or two I guess)

If a vehicle has an HE and secondary armament, can they be combined into one attack for one Impulse point or is the vehicle unable to move that turn having to spend both actions firing?

Wrecks degrade LOS, vehicles do not?

Playing through Gingerbread House as my first scenario. I am so enamoured of the system I intend to purchase Stalingrad tomorrow.

Thanks.


Glad you like it Adolph, thanks for your support.

Vance is correct.
The Main and Secondary are carried out as 2 separate attacks, they may not be combined like a group fire.
The attacks may be carried out on 2 different targets ( exception is with Op Fire where the attacks may only be used on target of Op Fire)

Yes Wrecks degrade LOS and functioning vehicles have no effect.


One question I have about melee:

An infantry unit and a tank are in melee. Neither manages to do any damage to the other, so the melee continues. In the next turn, the side with the infantry unit moves a tank into the melee hex to tip the scales.

Question:

How do I resolve this? There doesn't appear to be anything in the rules that cover this eventuality, but they don't (appear to) prohibit it, either.

My instinct would be to simply resolve it as 2 melees -- one involving the infantry vs. the enemy tank's secondary FP only, and the other as a tank duel according to the usual rules.

The question then becomes: in which order do I resolve them?

Any thoughts?
 
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Shayne Logan
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Question:

How do I resolve this? There doesn't appear to be anything in the rules that cover this eventuality, but they don't (appear to) prohibit it, either.

My instinct would be to simply resolve it as 2 melees -- one involving the infantry vs. the enemy tank's secondary FP only, and the other as a tank duel according to the usual rules.

The question then becomes: in which order do I resolve them?

Any thoughts?[/

Tank Duels are used only for Melees with tanks only. Melee would be resolved using normal rules.
Example in Rulebook, Page 17, has a German Pioneer and Tank in Melee with Russian Rifle squad.
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Shayne Logan
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Dukewilliam wrote:
You guys are alright!

Here's another one: does it cost an Impulse point for a SPC to avoid melee?

Thanks,
Steve


No, if a SMC is moved onto with an enemy Assault move,the owning player rolls immediately, if he wishes to avoid Melee. No cost of Impulse pts and the move to adjacent hex is made immediately as well.
 
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Jamm22 wrote:

Question:

How do I resolve this? There doesn't appear to be anything in the rules that cover this eventuality, but they don't (appear to) prohibit it, either.

My instinct would be to simply resolve it as 2 melees -- one involving the infantry vs. the enemy tank's secondary FP only, and the other as a tank duel according to the usual rules.

The question then becomes: in which order do I resolve them?

Any thoughts?[/

Tank Duels are used only for Melees with tanks only. Melee would be resolved using normal rules.
Example in Rulebook, Page 17, has a German Pioneer and Tank in Melee with Russian Rifle squad.


But that example doesn't cover the situation I described, in which I had a German rifle, a German PzIVf2, and a Russian KV-1 in a melee. Given that the KV-1 can't attack both simultaneously (HE vs. AP ammo), how do I resolve it?
 
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Shayne Logan
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Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer

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Richard Simon
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Now I am confused.

In the example, why does the PzIVF2 use its HE in the melee while the KV appears to use its AP factor?
 
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Shayne Logan
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Kv is also using its He, and +2 for the secondary Mgs. 4 FP Main gun HE + 2FP Mgs = 6 FP for the KV. Just happens to be the same total as the 6 AP value.
Main gun HE and Mgs are totalled for the vehicle.
It's listed in the diagram.
 
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Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?
 
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Richard Simon
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Which goes to my question, I guess. It appears that in both melee and tank duels, the armor uses its HE rather than its Main gun AP. Is this correct?

Another question: Where the rules state that a side gets an extra impulse die roll (e.g. +1 for the Soviets on Turn 12 in Frozen), is that for that turn only or for the remainder of the game)
 
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Max Jansson
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novaheat wrote:
Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?


In none of the examples the KV-1 is firing AP rounds. The only melee situation that let's a tank fire AP is when there are only armored vehicles in the melee.
 
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Max Jansson
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ndanger666 wrote:
Which goes to my question, I guess. It appears that in both melee and tank duels, the armor uses its HE rather than its Main gun AP. Is this correct?

Another question: Where the rules state that a side gets an extra impulse die roll (e.g. +1 for the Soviets on Turn 12 in Frozen), is that for that turn only or for the remainder of the game)


No, in tank duels the tanks use their AP value. There is no tank duel in this example.

Can't help you with your other question, since I don't have the scenario book.
 
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Shayne Logan
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ndanger666 wrote:
Which goes to my question, I guess. It appears that in both melee and tank duels, the armor uses its HE rather than its Main gun AP. Is this correct?

Another question: Where the rules state that a side gets an extra impulse die roll (e.g. +1 for the Soviets on Turn 12 in Frozen), is that for that turn only or for the remainder of the game)


Hi Richard,
HE is used in resolving normal Melees, AP factors used in tank duels
( no mgs).

Regarding the Impulses, when it says +1 Impulse die in the scenario with the arrival of reinforcements, that additional die is for the rest of the game.
So in the case of 'Frozen', Soviet starts game with 3 Impulse dice, and after the arrival of reinforcements, rolls 4 Impulse dice for the remainder of game.
 
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Shayne Logan
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novaheat wrote:
Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?


Using the HE in normal Melees is a gameplay consideration. Of course the tanks would be firing AP at other tanks, but if you start getting too far into the minute (sp?) the flow of the game suffers.
A standard was set using the HE values and play testing proved the mechanic worked well.

OST tries to avoid going too far down any rabbit holes because it bogs gameplay down with no payoff IMO.
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Richard Simon
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Thanks.

Some questions on Frozen. The scenario special rules state that the Germans have to roll for their Turn 12 reinforcements.

1) Does the act of rolling consume a CP?

2) When they roll, do they roll for all the remaining reinforcements at once (each with an individual roll) or do they only get to roll for one tank per impulse point?

For example, assume it is Turn 11 and the Germans have five tanks that haven't yet entered. The German wants to enter them (obviously)
A) Does he have to spend a CP to roll for them?

B) Assuming he does not (for this question), does he now roll five times (once for each remaining tank) or does he only roll for one single tank? (He would roll for the remaining tanks on other impulses)

I would ask the same questions as A and B assuming that it does cost a CP to roll for the reinforcements.

Obviously, this will skew the scenario significantly.
 
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Jamm22 wrote:
novaheat wrote:
Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?


Using the HE in normal Melees is a gameplay consideration. Of course the tanks would be firing AP at other tanks, but if you start getting too far into the minute (sp?) the flow of the game suffers.
A standard was set using the HE values and play testing proved the mechanic worked well.

OST tries to avoid going too far down any rabbit holes because it bogs gameplay down with no payoff IMO.



This produces some strange situations at times, however. For example, using the HE value, the PzIVe is actually more powerful than a PzIVf2 when used alongside infantry in a melee against an enemy tank (5 vs 4 HE, respectively), while the PzIVf2 is better in a tank duel, since its AP is 10.

In any case, I don't want to keep harping on about this, since you've kindly provided rulings (and even graphics! ). I appreciate you taking the time to explain things!
 
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Evil_X wrote:
novaheat wrote:
Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?


In none of the examples the KV-1 is firing AP rounds. The only melee situation that let's a tank fire AP is when there are only armored vehicles in the melee.


Right. My confusion stems from the fact that in literally every other situation in the game, armor firing at armor requires using the AP value, while in melee that also involves infantry we suddenly use the HE rating (which is sometimes quite a bit lower than the AP rating) to resolve tank vs. tank combat. This is incongruous and doesn't make any sense.

Shayne has now explained that this was done for the sake of simplicity, and that playtesting showed that it works. Fair enough -- he's obviously played a lot more games of OST than I have. But I still think that it leaves open the possibility for bizarre situations like a PzIVe being more effective against enemy tanks than a PzIVf2 in certain circumstances.

But again, Shayne has played a lot of OST (and he literally wrote the rules), so perhaps the situation I'm describing is a fairly rare case.
 
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Max Jansson
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novaheat wrote:
Evil_X wrote:
novaheat wrote:
Jamm22 wrote:
Ok Novaheat you made me work for this answer



Thanks, Shayne! One other question, though...

If the combat is happening simultaneously, shouldn't the KV-1 be limited to using its MG against the infantry, since it's busy firing AP rounds out of its main gun at the PzIV?


In none of the examples the KV-1 is firing AP rounds. The only melee situation that let's a tank fire AP is when there are only armored vehicles in the melee.


Right. My confusion stems from the fact that in literally every other situation in the game, armor firing at armor requires using the AP value, while in melee that also involves infantry we suddenly use the HE rating (which is sometimes quite a bit lower than the AP rating) to resolve tank vs. tank combat. This is incongruous and doesn't make any sense.

Shayne has now explained that this was done for the sake of simplicity, and that playtesting showed that it works. Fair enough -- he's obviously played a lot more games of OST than I have. But I still think that it leaves open the possibility for bizarre situations like a PzIVe being more effective against enemy tanks than a PzIVf2 in certain circumstances.

But again, Shayne has played a lot of OST (and he literally wrote the rules), so perhaps the situation I'm describing is a fairly rare case.


Nothing stopping you from house ruling a tank may use AP rounds if concentrating fire on another tank.
 
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