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Subject: Salonika and Albania rss

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Todd Hammond
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The situation is 2 spent Serbian armies and a spent British army are in Serbia. There is also a fresh British army in Greece but Greeks are not fully in the war yet. Austria wins a battle there so one Serbian army is removed and the other retreats to Greece.

Can the spent British army retreat to Albania since it can't go to Greece without forcing a British army home, or must it go to Greece since that is a viable option, just not optimal? If the latter, can Britain choose which army has to leave? Thanks.
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Kirk Uhlmann
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Todd,

This is somewhat confusing and we agonized many a time over the various rules and possible scenarios concerning Greece and Salonika.

Quick answer - the Western Allies army retreating from Serbia will be returned to the Force Pool and the WA army in Greece is unaffected.

If Greece were enemy controlled then Greece would not be a consideration.

Section 10.2.3.2 states that units may retreat to Albania as if it is friendly controlled but only if there is no other option - i.e. no options or provisions for the unit to go elsewhere.

Greece is a viable option because, depending on the situation, you might prefer to have the retreating unit sent to the Force Pool (theoretically evacuated) in order to later redeploy it elsewhere instead of keeping it in the Balkans and also, and perhaps more importantly, that retreating to Greece does not result in permanent elimination of the unit.

By Section 10.2.3.3, "If a WA army is forced to retreat into Greece, and it already contains a different WA army, the retreating army is instead removed from the map and placed back in the Force Pool."

"Forced" means that it is a retreat situation with nowhere else to go. If Bulgaria were friendly controlled, the WA would have to retreat there and thus would be not be forced to retreat to Greece.

This also avoids the situation of giving the Western Allies player, forced to retreat, a possible benefit of getting a WA unit into Albania without incurring the cost of "attacking" there as an unoccupied Albania is always treated as enemy controlled.

Great question!

Kirk




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Todd Hammond
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Thanks Kirk. Follow up question, if Austria later continues to attack Greece and wins a battle against the spent WA and spent Serb, Greece enters the war and the WA army flips to fresh. What happens to the spent Serbian army? Is it eliminated because the battle was lost, or saved because Greece gives it shelter?
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Kirk Uhlmann
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If Greece has not yet entered the war and a successful attack on the units in Greece would force a retreat, the retreat is cancelled (the trench marker removed if present) and Greece immediately joins the war with the fresh Greek army placed in Greece. The original attacking unit that theoretically forced the retreat is still spent, but additional attacks could be made if units are available, but now the Greek army would be available for defense.

Essentially, if an attack would force the units in Greece to retreat and subsequently also force the attacking unit to advance into Greece (as per normal attack rules), the Greeks now join the war, stepping in before that advance can be completed and the forcing of the retreat. The units that would have been forced to retreat (the WA and Serbian unit) remain in Greece in their spent status. The WA could later be made fresh during the WA production phase by refitting or by absorbing the spent Serbian army.

Kirk
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Chris Friend
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thammond wrote:
The situation is 2 spent Serbian armies and a spent British army are in Serbia. There is also a fresh British army in Greece but Greeks are not fully in the war yet. Austria wins a battle there so one Serbian army is removed and the other retreats to Greece.

Can the spent British army retreat to Albania since it can't go to Greece without forcing a British army home, or must it go to Greece since that is a viable option, just not optimal? If the latter, can Britain choose which army has to leave? Thanks.


Hi guys. Had to flip back and forth several times between the question, Kirk's answer and the rulebook to understand the situation. I think I now do now except for one thing. (Situation presumes Greece has the Salonika Open marker).

Why was one Spent Serbian Army removed instead of retreated to Greece with the other Spent Serbian Army? The second bullet under 10.2.3.3. Greece and under the Salonika Event paragraph says "Greece is considered a Triple Entente ally for PP Transfers to Serbia and for retreat purposes".

The second Salonika bullet says only one Western Ally Army is allowed in Greece at one time if Salonika is "Open". But Serbia is a Triple Entente Eastern Allies nation, not Western. So in my mind both Spent Serbian Armies should be able to retreat to Greece. (Sorry if I muddied the water.)

What am I missing?
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Hey Chris!
Serbia is a conquered nation at that point and is allowed only one Spent "in exile" army.

Herm
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Chris Friend
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HORST324 wrote:
Hey Chris!
Serbia is a conquered nation at that point and is allowed only one Spent "in exile" army.

Herm


Thanks for the quick answer Herm. Yep, I missed 10.1.1 and 10.1.2.
zombie Argh!
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Todd Hammond
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Thanks again. Don't know where I got the WA flips to fresh. Enjoying the game very much.
 
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Thanks Todd - we're happy you like it. Spread the word if you can!
We're already starting preliminary discussions of the next game in the series - using the same basic mechanics - and it's going to be fun and unique!

Herm
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Chris Friend
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HORST324 wrote:
Thanks Todd - we're happy you like it. Spread the word if you can!

Herm


I'm trying to do my part! It's a great game I am also enjoying very much.
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Thanks Chris - I know you're doing a great job .... I see you on Facebook!

Herm
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Todd Hammond
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Kirk - Quick question on your second reply above. Last sentence you say a WA army could absorb the spent Serbian one. I thought only the same faction could absorb an army? Thanks - Todd
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Chris Friend
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thammond wrote:
Kirk - Quick question on your second reply above. Last sentence you say a WA army could absorb the spent Serbian one. I thought only the same faction could absorb an army? Thanks - Todd


I'd say you're right Todd. There are two alliances, but four factions (2.3.2). So the EA could absorb it but not the WA per 10.1.2.
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Yup - I think you guys are right .... the absoprbed unit has to be from the same Faction. So a Romanian or the Greek unit could absorb it.

Herm
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Kirk Uhlmann
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The last line of 10.1.2 (before the example) states that any allied army may be made fresh by eliminating the spent conquered army (absorbing it).

However, in that same rule it states that this happens during the faction production phase of the conquered army, so technically the Serb unit would be removed on the EA/US faction turn to flip the WA army to fresh at that time.
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Chris Friend
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Torr wrote:
The last line of 10.1.2 (before the example) states that any allied army may be made fresh by eliminatibg the spent conquered army (absorbing it).

However, in that same rule it states that this happens during the faction production phase of the conquered army, so technically the Serb unit would be removed on the EA/US faction turn to refit the WA army at that time.


Ooh, tricky. :-)
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