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Manu Tolcin
France
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We came across an interesting situation in a play yesterday.
While a Wing Guard is adjacent to another imperial figure (non guardian), can Murne uses False Orders on this Wing Man to attack the adjacent imperial figure then use Keep the peace to have the wing man suffer 2 damages?

I know this is twisted... but the Bespin Gambit rule book states that while attacking with another figure "all non-neutral figures are considered hostile" and Keep The Peace applies "when a hostile figure declares an attack". So if all figures are considered hostile, is the Wing Guard hostile to himself?
 
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Special Attacks, Bespin Gambit wrote:
All non-neutral figures are considered hostile and no figures are considered friendly while performing this attack. The figure cannot target itself.

Attacks, RRG wrote:
-- The player resolving the ability chooses the target of the attack. All figures are considered hostile when choosing a target for this attack. The figure cannot target itself.


I'm not sure if the attack rule says that the figure would no longer be friendly to itself. All non-neutral figures are hostile to the attacker and no figures are friendly to the attacker.

The base rule is:
RRG, Friendly Figures wrote:
* A figure is friendly to itself.


But it can easily go the other way. Is The figure cannot target itself a clarification or is it needed because a figure can be hostile to itself? If a figure can be hostile to itself , then Keep the Peace can be triggered on the Wing Guard performing the attack.

Maybe Clipper has come across this before and can help?
 
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Rampa Crowley
France
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I'ld say that any "specific rule" overwrite any "base rule"

Base rule : A figure is friendly to itself
Specific rule (only when mind controlled): All non-neutral figures are considered hostile and no figures are considered friendly while performing this attack.

 
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Pasi Ojala
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Tampere
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Yes, a rule on a card can override rules in the rules reference. (Edit: But a rule on the rulebooks isn't automatically allowed to override other rules on the rulebook(s). See Golden Rules from the RRG.)

A figure being hostile to itself, but not being allowed to attack itself sounds a bit contradictory, but may be exactly the intent.
 
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Rampa Crowley
France
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"Not being able to attack itself" really looks like a nerf of the overlord card in Descent 2nd Ed (forgot its name).

It is credible that the only moment a figure can be hostile to itself is when it's mind controlled.
But I'm not sure at all!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
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A very strict interpretation of the wording of the rules would infer that the controlled figure is hostile to itself, but I believe the intent is otherwise.
 
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Craig S.
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Clipper wrote:
A very strict interpretation of the wording of the rules would infer that the controlled figure is hostile to itself, but I believe the intent is otherwise.


I agree. If a figure was meant to be hostile to itself, why wouldn't you be able to make it target itself?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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I was rewriting the rule in my mind as:

All non-neutral figures are considered hostile to the attacker and no figures are considered friendly to the attacker while performing this attack. The figure cannot target itself.

I think figures cannot just be hostile or friendly indiscriminantly, they need to be hostile and/or friendly towards some other figure.

For example I expect an imperial target figure is still friendly to an adjacent Royal Guard or Royal Guard Champion.
 
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Craig S.
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a1bert wrote:
I was rewriting the rule in my mind as:

All non-neutral figures are considered hostile to the attacker and no figures are considered friendly to the attacker while performing this attack. The figure cannot target itself.

I think figures cannot just be hostile or friendly indiscriminantly, they need to be hostile and/or friendly towards some other figure.

For example I expect an imperial target figure is still friendly to an adjacent Royal Guard or Royal Guard Champion.


This, exactly.
 
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Craig S.
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The intent is clearly that the controlled figure can harm any figure in the board with the sole exception of itself. Keep the Peace seems to be an edge case that was left ambiguous by the way they chose to word things. Can anyone think of any other ability that would allow a controlled figure to harm itself? Blast doesn't count because figures have always been free to voluntarily blast themselves while attacking...
 
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Manu Tolcin
France
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I kind of agree with the intent but I still do not see any forceful argument to allow it or not when reading the rules. Ultimately we rolled a dice during the game to decide... and unfortunately for me (imperial) we rolled in favor of the combo. It made the Wing Guards pretty useless but it was still a win for the imperials!
 
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