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Subject: Initial impressions after playing Legend 1 rss

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Craig Southworth
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So we finally got this to the table last night after avoiding it for a couple of months due to the negative things people have said about the Hour Tracker making it necesarry to avoid combat.

I was intrigued to find that Legend 1 actually encourages combat quite a lot, which makes me see why some would get upset by needing to avoid combat in future Legends. Why make it such a vital part of the first quest if it's something that's to be avoided later on?

We did enjoy it but the following few points bugged me a little.

- I found it quite difficult to locate specific numbered areas that we were being told to places pieces on to. The contrast of the number vs background made this quite tricky. Bit nit-picky i know but there you have it.

- I thought the combat was just plain un-fair. Why should the monsters get a bonus for rolling doubles but the players do not? I understand it's like simulating a critical hit or something, but it does make it a bit one sided when the players can't crit and resulted in my mates character dieing in a single combat thanks to me rolling 4 doubles in a row on behalf of the monster.

- I'm not sure it will scale all that well. The Legend cards tell you to put 'x' number of monsters on the board regardless of how many players there are. This could lead to a situation where it's a lot easier for 3 characters to defend the castle while the 4th player delivers the message as opposed to the single guard we had in our 2 player game last night. Granted they've tried to mitigate this by increasing the number that are permitted to get through in a 2 player game but i'm not sure this is sufficient.

Like i say, these are just initial impressions at the moment as i've only played the tutorial story so the jury is still out on how the game overall holds up.
 
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Bruce Bacher
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zaphoduk wrote:
I was intrigued to find that Legend 1 actually encourages combat quite a lot, which makes me see why some would get upset by needing to avoid combat in future Legends. Why make it such a vital part of the first quest if it's something that's to be avoided later on?


I assumed it's that way just to teach you how combat works.
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Calvin Le Huray
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zaphoduk wrote:
So we finally got this to the table last night after avoiding it for a couple of months due to the negative things people have said about the Hour Tracker making it necesarry to avoid combat.

I was intrigued to find that Legend 1 actually encourages combat quite a lot, which makes me see why some would get upset by needing to avoid combat in future Legends. Why make it such a vital part of the first quest if it's something that's to be avoided later on?

We did enjoy it but the following few points bugged me a little.

- I found it quite difficult to locate specific numbered areas that we were being told to places pieces on to. The contrast of the number vs background made this quite tricky. Bit nit-picky i know but there you have it.

- I thought the combat was just plain un-fair. Why should the monsters get a bonus for rolling doubles but the players do not? I understand it's like simulating a critical hit or something, but it does make it a bit one sided when the players can't crit and resulted in my mates character dieing in a single combat thanks to me rolling 4 doubles in a row on behalf of the monster.

- I'm not sure it will scale all that well. The Legend cards tell you to put 'x' number of monsters on the board regardless of how many players there are. This could lead to a situation where it's a lot easier for 3 characters to defend the castle while the 4th player delivers the message as opposed to the single guard we had in our 2 player game last night. Granted they've tried to mitigate this by increasing the number that are permitted to get through in a 2 player game but i'm not sure this is sufficient.

Like i say, these are just initial impressions at the moment as i've only played the tutorial story so the jury is still out on how the game overall holds up.


I can assure you that the game scales well whatever the numbers of players. The reason the game seems unfair because it has been designed to be hard to beat, otherwise you would end up with a game with little replay value.

The second legend is one of the best.
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Andreas Krüger
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I am not sure when legend 1 ends, so I don't know how much you already know about the effect of killed monsters on the narrator. Combat is indeed necessary to win the game, you need the kills for gold and to defend the castle. But combat comes at a cost, and for most scenarios you will be happy about each hour saved, or even whole days.

- Yes, the numbers are sometimes hard to find. There are some files and images on BGG which are supposed to help but for us they don't work well.

- Buy your fighter a helmet ;-). The rule just makes sure that combat is not an automatic victory for stronger heroes. It triggers in one of six rounds, statistically, for monsters with two dice. It makes monsters with three dice much more dangerous, so don't underestimate trolls.

- The game scales quite well. Each shield on the castle translates to one day extra time for the narrator, so that is a lot of extra time for two or three heroes. It is not perfect, though. There are also other balancing elements which you will later encounter, e. g. boss enemies with variable willpower.
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Kevin B. Smith
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zaphoduk wrote:
I was intrigued to find that Legend 1 actually encourages combat quite a lot,

It has been a long time since I played Legend 1. I didn't remember it encouraging combat all that much, but you may be right.

Quote:
- I found it quite difficult to locate specific numbered areas

Yes, this is still annoying after over a dozen plays. Most numbers are pretty easy to find, but a couple are placed in really unexpected locations. I know there is a downloadable map, which I should probably print out. There was something about the map that I wish had been done differently, however. (I don't remember what it was.)

Quote:
- I thought the combat was just plain un-fair. Why should the monsters get a bonus for rolling doubles but the players do not?

From an RPG perspective, think of it as your characters starting out as low-level, weaker than the monsters. If you team up, they are usually pretty easy to beat. Later, if you spend the money, you too will be able to gain that doubles bonus.

Quote:
- I'm not sure it will scale all that well.

As someone else said, it actually does scale quite well.

Quote:
Like i say, these are just initial impressions at the moment as i've only played the tutorial story so the jury is still out on how the game overall holds up.

Legend 1 is really just a "learn the rules" tutorial, so hopefully you'll enjoy the game more as you go on. I found Legend 2 fun, but very challenging, so I had to play it several times before winning. Legend 3 is the one you'll probably play the most, since it is the most randomized. I enjoyed using the back of the board for Legend 4, and I haven't yet played Legend 5.
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Remember, you can purchase a helm to also get the ability to add doubles.

We have found the game scales well in our experience. As for combat, well it depends on the scenario. Some scenarios reward combat, while others you need to be careful with who you fight. This game is much more than a mindless hack and slash- that's one of the best things about it!
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Mark Yang
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Woodbridge
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The game is designed to be challenging and tense to the end, kind of like the feeling you get from a game of Pandemic. Without revealing spoilers, there will be new game mechanics and components that come into play as you progress through the legends that will reveal how the game is balanced and how it scales with more/less players.

I'm glad you took the plunge to play the game! It's an enjoyable experience for sure.

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Corey Hopkins
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Early in the game you will need to team up in fights against gors. Otherwise, you will waste a ton of time on battle rounds and might not even win at the end of it. Patience is key. Eventually you will gather some gold and be able to level up a bit.

There's plenty of combat in the game, but you have to choose your fights carefully. Let the castle deal with big guys. Prioritize gors that are part of monster chains. Personally, I avoid fights that I'm not confident I can win in one or two rounds.

As for scaling, I play mostly two-player and it works great. We lose a lot, but it's usually close.

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Calvin Le Huray
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chopkins828 wrote:
Early in the game you will need to team up in fights against gors. Otherwise, you will waste a ton of time on battle rounds and might not even win at the end of it. Patience is key. Eventually you will gather some gold and be able to level up a bit.

There's plenty of combat in the game, but you have to choose your fights carefully. Let the castle deal with big guys. Prioritize gors that are part of monster chains. Personally, I avoid fights that I'm not confident I can win in one or two rounds.

As for scaling, I play mostly two-player and it works great. We lose a lot, but it's usually close.



+1
 
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Craig Southworth
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Thanks for the replies.

The helm wasn't available in Legend 1 (specifically said not to use anything on the red bordered pop-out boards), it only said we could by +1 STR for 2 gold so wasn't aware the helm gave the double dice. That could be a good boost later on.

Since playing i have ordered one of the expansions so that's promising :-)

One thing i didn't mention in my initial impressions are how rubbish the tiny wooden dice are. I will definately be replacing them with some bigger plastic dice at the earliest opportunity.
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Calvin Le Huray
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zaphoduk wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

The helm wasn't available in Legend 1 (specifically said not to use anything on the red bordered pop-out boards), it only said we could by +1 STR for 2 gold so wasn't aware the helm gave the double dice. That could be a good boost later on.

Since playing i have ordered one of the expansions so that's promising :-)

One thing i didn't mention in my initial impressions are how rubbish the tiny wooden dice are. I will definately be replacing them with some bigger plastic dice at the earliest opportunity.


I replaced mine with plastic dice.
 
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Matthias Mahr
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zaphoduk wrote:
So we finally got this to the table last night after avoiding it for a couple of months due to the negative things people have said about the Hour Tracker making it necesarry to avoid combat.
Well, they are wrong. The game is not about avoiding combat in general, just unnecessary combat. You'll have to determine, which fights you have to take, and which not. The big baddy of Andor is not so nice, as in other "thematic games" to give you all the time you want to level up killing all his minions. Some people call that unthematic. ("Why should the bad guy be so mean?")

Quote:
- I thought the combat was just plain un-fair. Why should the monsters get a bonus for rolling doubles but the players do not? I understand it's like simulating a critical hit or something, but it does make it a bit one sided when the players can't crit and resulted in my mates character dieing in a single combat thanks to me rolling 4 doubles in a row on behalf of the monster.
Like mentioned before: from Legend 2 on, you will be able to equip yourself with a helmet. (Which will be only useful for characters, who can roll multiple dice at once, so not the mage or archer.) Nevertheless, the creatures have this ability as default, the heroes have to buy it. But also keep in mind, that the heroes can attack in a party, while the monsters are always alone.
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Dmitriy Razumov
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zaphoduk wrote:
So we finally got this to the table last night after avoiding it for a couple of months due to the negative things people have said about the Hour Tracker making it necesarry to avoid combat.


It's because evil forces react every time you kill the monster. They speeds up, sometimes causing bad effects. So, people just don't feel satisfaction after killing a monster.

I'm understand it, but it feels really thematic for me and gives a tension through whole game.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Uncivil wrote:
I'm understand it, but it feels really thematic for me and gives a tension through whole game.

The other thematic reason is that these are "legends"--retelling of stories from the past. In a movie, you might dedicate one scene to a full day's travel by the party, and another scene to a single battle. Having the "narrator" (note that term as well) advance makes sense from that standpoint.

So it kind of works at the direct thematic level (fighting monsters ramps up evil's response), and at the meta thematic level (fighting monsters consumes more of the narrator's storytelling time). Plus of course it works mechanically (the puzzle is more difficult when you have to make hard choices about which monsters to kill).

I can't say I *love* the mechanism, but I have certainly learned to accept it.
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tom tom
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A fun way to play 2 player is use 3 heroes. Each player has their own and one hero can be used by any player in place of their own on a turn. We play you can not use the 3rd hero on 2 consecutive plays. So if she uses it I can't on my turn. Adds some nice variety.
 
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Mikolaj Witkowski
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zaphoduk wrote:

One thing i didn't mention in my initial impressions are how rubbish the tiny wooden dice are. I will definately be replacing them with some bigger plastic dice at the earliest opportunity.

I loved those dice! One of the reasons why I got the game, I actually always replace plastic dice with wooden ones every chance I get, what's wrong with them?
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