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Subject: Future of Mice and Mystics? rss

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Enon Sci
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Just curious if anybody knows the future of this game. More expansions? Revised edition that would allow for more longevity?

I haven't been following Plaid Hat's communications on this front since about 2013, and I just noticed the last content was released in 2014. Anything brewing?

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Alex P
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Plaid Hat released a player vs player skirmish game set in the same world, Tail Feathers, earlier this year. The plan seems to be they're going to alternate between new M&M expansions and Tail Feathers if it is successful.
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Brandon Held
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Cliffy73 wrote:
The plan seems to be they're going to alternate between new M&M expansions and Tail Feathers if it is successful.


Is there any confirmation by the creator of the game that this is the plan, to alternate like this?
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Last year I had a chat with Jerry Hawthorne and he said something along these lines, yes. He had a lot of ideas back then, to crossover between these two games and mechanics and that everything will depend on the reception - he would follow that vector.

That said, I'm not sure how successful Tail Feathers and Downwood Tales were. For Mice and Mystics fans, these are instabuys, sure, but don't know how it goes for the rest.
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brian
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rattkin wrote:
Last year I had a chat with Jerry Hawthorne and he said something along these lines, yes. He had a lot of ideas back then, to crossover between these two games and mechanics and that everything will depend on the reception - he would follow that vector.

That said, I'm not sure how successful Tail Feathers and Downwood Tales were. For Mice and Mystics fans, these are instabuys, sure, but don't know how it goes for the rest.

I had the same conversation with him last year at GenCon. He is "one guy" and working back and forth on these.
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Brandon Held
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rattkin wrote:
That said, I'm not sure how successful Tail Feathers and Downwood Tales were.


I've been curious about this myself. I'm not sure how well either of them have sold and what it would mean for the game's future.

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Aernout Casier
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Just curious if anybody knows the future of this game. More expansions? Revised edition that would allow for more longevity?

I haven't been following Plaid Hat's communications on this front since about 2013, and I just noticed the last content was released in 2014. Anything brewing?


A thing that strikes me (and worries me with regards to the future) is that it has been falling through the rankings lately.
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David Hladky
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I think it is inevitable. There are more and more games and as the new content is not being released, the rating must fall. Another story would be nice though.
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Greg
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As mentioned previously, I think it would depend on sales of Downwood Tales and Tail Feathers. I worked on Downwood Tales for about a year with Jerry and others, there is a ton of time and work that went into it. I also just playtested Heart of Glorm, so by the time I got to it, it wasn't so bad timewise for me, but it was only a small expansion and didn't require all that Downwood Tales did. I also don't know how long it was being worked on before I joined in that.

So if things are trending down, then it may not be worth the time/effort to do anything else. But who knows, perhaps Jerry has some other projects he wants to work on as well, not to mention, maybe Colby is even asking for something different. While Jerry is the designer, Colby is still the publisher and has some say in what gets done.
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Brandon Held
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The problem with expansions, even with an expansion as good as Downwood Tales, is that you see diminishing economic returns. Your audience is already set (those who own/enjoy the base game and want more).

Personally, I'd really be disappointed if we didn't see another big-box expansion for Mice and Mystics.
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Enon Sci
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Councilofthevoid wrote:
The problem with expansions, even with an expansion as good as Downwood Tales, is that you see diminishing economic returns. Your audience is already set (those who own/enjoy the base game and want more).

Personally, I'd really be disappointed if we didn't see another big-box expansion for Mice and Mystics.


Which is why I floated the alternative of a reboot / 2nd edition as well. So long as it contained a new campaign (and maybe had revised campaign rules as well), I'd be happy. A conversion kit could also work.
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rattkin wrote:
I'm not sure how successful Tail Feathers and Downwood Tales were. For Mice and Mystics fans, these are instabuys

Downwood Tales yes of course, but Tail Feathers not necessarily. For me and my playgroup at least, it wasn't.

It looks just as stunning as M&M obviously, but it's still a tactical aerial combat game. We're not interested in that type of game.
So even though we really wanted to end up liking it when it was announced, we just don't.

We would only get it just for the extra characters should there be a new M&M set that provides opportunity to use them.
However a new M&M set, any kind really (except perhaps a too-similar 2nd edition), we would buy instantly.

So at least from that perspective, if there are more people like us, the number of sales for TF might not be a good indicator for the interest in a new M&M game.
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Falenthal Greenleaf
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Not having played Downwood Tales, what I'd absolutely would like in Mice & Mystics are some more option in how to overcome enemies. Or, in fact, being able to encounter tiles that don't need enemies to pose a challenge.
Stealth (using the Foot/Movement score) and Diplomacy (using the Feather/Wisdom) seem like could work well.

The stories, the characters, the minis, the tiles, the objects,... all are very inspiring and lovable. But sometimes, as much in love as I'm with the game, even I get tired of the "enter new tile, kill all enemies, search before the clock advances, move to another tile. Repeat."
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David Hladky
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The same for my group. We like coop games. We have X-Wing, Imperial assault and Bolt Action for skirmishes. So even if FT is not bad game we will opt it out.
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Enon Sci
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Falenthal wrote:
Not having played Downwood Tales, what I'd absolutely would like in Mice & Mystics are some more option in how to overcome enemies. Or, in fact, being able to encounter tiles that don't need enemies to pose a challenge.
Stealth (using the Foot/Movement score) and Diplomacy (using the Feather/Wisdom) seem like could work well.

The stories, the characters, the minis, the tiles, the objects,... all are very inspiring and lovable. But sometimes, as much in love as I'm with the game, even I get tired of the "enter new tile, kill all enemies, search before the clock advances, move to another tile. Repeat."


Problem here is that every round you spend on a tile without enemies gets you close to a surge. :/

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David Hladky
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This may not be problem at all. Scenario rules can override the basic ones. The problem is to invent a decent challenge interesting for the players. And as said earlier, this is a big effort that may and may not be considered worthwhile for the creators.
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Falenthal Greenleaf
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mrakomor wrote:
This may not be problem at all. Scenario rules can override the basic ones. The problem is to invent a decent challenge interesting for the players. And as said earlier, this is a big effort that may and may not be considered worthwhile for the creators.


Exactly those are my thoughts.

Imagine the first tile of the game: the mice have to escape the jail.

The first game turn wouldn't begin with rats in the tile. Rats will only arrive if a surge occurs. Cheese will still be added to the clock after every full turn, but that doesn't trigger a surge. In fact, having to battle rats will probably add more cheese to the clock than just spending a few turns without enemies in the tile.

During that time, the heroes can do different things:
* if someone succesfully searches for the Tinkerer's Treasure, Nez can use it to open the main door. Behind the door, they'll find a sleeping jailguard rat. The group can either battle him, try to sneak past the rat (difficult), or someone can approach it in stealth mode (Filch) and knock it unconsciouss (new rule!)
From there on, they'll escape the castle along an "upper floor" route, at least for some tiles. They would find the kitchen conflict in their way, and could go downstairs from there, without losing time.

* jump down to the sewers. Cockroaches can be found there, but maybe they're not inmediatly aggressive. The inminent problem for the heroes is that they splash in the water one tile to the left (for the current) than they begin as the game is designed now: their chances to be swallowed by the water are far bigger. If any companion is swallowed by the water, he can't be rescued by the rest until all creatures (cockroaches) have been defeated. That would be according to the rules as written. But it could also be interesting that the cockroaches are nesting in a corner, where the Fishing Hook can be seen, which is needed to rescue the stuck friends. The remaining heroes have to fight the cockroaches to get the Fishing Hook, and we need to consider that the group is diminished in numbers.
If all heroes manage to get out of the water unharmed, they can leave the tile without fighting the cockroaches at all. Unless they want to get the Fishing Hook item for some reason.
From there on, they'll escape the castle through an underground route. Helping at the kitchen conflict would result in the danger of losing time.

*Other options, like considering that to escape through the jail grid to the sewers a * needs to be rolled using the Movement score. If a mouse fails the roll, he can't escape through the grid. The companions that managed to slip through the grid must try to get out of the sewers, upstairs to the front of the jaildoor, sneak to the sleeping jailguard rat, steal his key, and unlock the friend. We already have rules for splitted groups in one of the chapters of the campaign.

*I would also find interesting to have more side-rooms, with the chance to explore them (and gain Search cards), but also implying losing time. Not all side-rooms need to include a combat: sneaking through guards, using diplomacy with a neutral centipede, overcoming physical obstacles (jumps, climbing,...) using the Movement score and needing some *,...

*Haven't given this a deep thought, but I guess it would also make some situations more interesting if Search cards couldn't be drawn anywhere in a tile. This could force the group to split some times: the warriors could hold the enemies at bay, while the quicker mouses (Filch) or the ranged attackers (Lily and Maginos) move towards treasure chests, beasts' burrows, etc to Search there. Or some tiles could be crossed without combat, unless you want to search the exact cabinet where a spider is resting...


I'd also like to have more consequences and options in the story in case you manage/don't manage to solve some situations.
**SPOILER**
In chapter 5, Brodie could try to run and escape after his first card is beaten. What if the heroes are unable to capture Brodie? Wouldn't it be interesting if they go on with the campaign, but in chapter 6 (Battle at Barksburg) they couldn't forge the horn? How would the battle be solved and the raven captured? The story wouldn't have to change that much, but the ways the heroes have to overcome it would differ slightly. Enough to notice that there are consequences for failure and for success, and that what you do in one chapter of the story, bears to the next ones.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Given the fact that base game mechanics rely in fighting, that would be very hard to the design and nightmare to test. I think the current solution with occasional sidegames (tossing cheese, bidding, flipping coins) works best.
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John "Omega" Williams
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It would not be too hard to introduce puzzle missions to future M&M expansions. Theres a couple of ways to do it that can be randomized every session.

Or the stealth missions as noted by a poster above. Those are even easier to pull off in M&M.
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David Hladky
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If you think it is not too hard, feel free to create a few balanced scenarios and share them here in variants section.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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#burn
 
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I just want to say if you go introducing puzzles or stealth to give more options in the game you will over complicate it thus losing the family friendly fun that it is.

I think this was designed so you could play with anyone, even a non gamer or your young children, which I think Jerry Hawthorne did on many occasions with his daughters. If you make the rules or missions too complicated you'll lose that.

If you want hardcore dungeon crawling look at Descent or other similar heavy dungeon crawlers.
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John "Omega" Williams
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Alderdust wrote:
I just want to say if you go introducing puzzles or stealth to give more options in the game you will over complicate it thus losing the family friendly fun that it is.

I think this was designed so you could play with anyone, even a non gamer or your young children, which I think Jerry Hawthorne did on many occasions with his daughters. If you make the rules or missions too complicated you'll lose that.

If you want hardcore dungeon crawling look at Descent or other similar heavy dungeon crawlers.


Stealth can be done without any complexeties. Why would sneaking make it less family friendly?

Same with puzzles up to a point and the idea is to not go overboard in complexity.
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Donatien Lacroix
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Answer by Plaid Hat Games mail about M&M future:

"It is still very much in production!"

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Enon Sci
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Donatien wrote:
Answer by Plaid Hat Games mail about M&M future:

"It is still very much in production!"



Humm... that could be interpreted as "we are keeping it in print," just as readily as "we're continuing to develop it further."

Could you share the fuller context?
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