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Subject: Some questions... rss

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Pete H.
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After playing Gulf Strike and Aegean Strike again for the first time since 20 (!) years I found some questions regarding the rules. I hope you can help me:


1. If the hasty assault formation is also allowed for defending units like outlined in the Aegean Strike rules, why should you ever use hasty defense formation (except for the cheaper supply points)? Doubling combat strength is mostly preferred to 1 column shift and no MP is required to leave the formation.

2. If a stack of units including air defense or HQ units attacks, do they also pay the supply costs even though they don't contribute any strength points to this battle?

3. If an air defense unit is in travel/reconstitution formation, is the anti air rating reduced?

4. If attacking units are supported by a stack of units from another hex, is it allowed to contribute one assault unit of this stack to this battle and another assault unit from this stack to another battle or must stacks of units always fight/support together in one combat?

5. If an armored unit reached a mountain or impassable hex by road, can this unit attack from this mountain hex into an adjacent clear hex even if there is no road leading up there? According to this situation is the question, if this unit exerts a ZOC to this clear hex?

6. If I‘ve read the rules precisely every ground unit in range with AA capability is allowed to fire against an enemy air unit which was previousely detected by a ground or EWDA unit regardeless if it's the target of the attack itself.
If this is the fact, I think that there is no chance of coming through a group of soviet mechanized divisions with an air defense unit?! They can fire twice (AA range of two) with a rating of 4. Two divisions and one AA-unit (no artillery, HQ or engineer unit taken into account) in an advantageous line-up can fire six times with a rating of 4 against the attacker before they can drop the first bomb (not to mention the way back)!? That‘s just for stealth units or kamikaze!

Thanks in advance for your Support

Pete
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Mike D
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A late response to this post but interesting questions here that can't really be answered without first spending some time scouring the rulebook. I'm no authority, of course, so below are just my own interpretations of the rules to answer your questions. Hope it's of some help.

Pete1966 wrote:

1. If the hasty assault formation is also allowed for defending units like outlined in the Aegean Strike rules, why should you ever use hasty defense formation (except for the cheaper supply points)? Doubling combat strength is mostly preferred to 1 column shift and no MP is required to leave the formation.


I'd agree Hasty Defense is not a particularly effective formation but supply is a very precious commodity and I think it's the lower cost in supply points that makes the difference in those situations.
For the End-Stage supply check, my interpretation is that expenditure of an Isolated Depot will yield a source of 4 supply points that can supply any number of units (28 L-4). This could make the HD formation preferable for Armor/Mech divisions in extended positions that would otherwise be out of supply and taking Hits if they were in a Hasty Assault formation.

Pete1966 wrote:

2. If a stack of units including air defense or HQ units attacks, do they also pay the supply costs even though they don't contribute any strength points to this battle?


Paragraph 28 L-5 states that if the unit is involved in the combat as either attacker or defender then it must expend supply following combat resolution. Paragraph 37 L-3 states that attacking is 'always voluntary' while defending is 'mandatory'. So my interpretation is that support units in the attacking stack that do not voluntarily get involved would not be required expend supply. All defending units in the target hex are involved so would be subject to supply costs.

Pete1966 wrote:

3. If an air defense unit is in travel/reconstitution formation, is the anti air rating reduced?


There's nothing in the rules to indicate that anti-air rating is reduced so I assume it remains the same regardless. Units in Reconstitution mode may not declare combat but I assume this only applies to ground combat so also has no effect on anti-air.

Pete1966 wrote:

4. If attacking units are supported by a stack of units from another hex, is it allowed to contribute one assault unit of this stack to this battle and another assault unit from this stack to another battle or must stacks of units always fight/support together in one combat?


Paragraph 25 L-5 states that the units in a stack must adopt the same formation (Trucks are an exception). There is nothing in the rules that prohibits combat units in a stack from declaring attacks on different target hexes so I assume this is possible.

Pete1966 wrote:

5. If an armored unit reached a mountain or impassable hex by road, can this unit attack from this mountain hex into an adjacent clear hex even if there is no road leading up there? According to this situation is the question, if this unit exerts a ZOC to this clear hex?


If I've understood the question properly, I assume no.
Paragraph 37 L-2 states that, for an attack to be possible, the terrain in the defender's hex must not prohibit the attacker from entering that hex. It makes sense to assume that the intervening hexside also need be taken into consideration.
Also note paragraph 26 R-0 which states that a Zone of Control consists of the hexes adjacent to a unit "that the unit is capable of entering", so the questions appear somewhat contradictory since I'm not sure how the ZOC can be exerted.
The Zone of Control example (Ins-5) shows an example of this where ZOC does not extend from a coastline hex to adjacent island hexes. I think the point is that a unit must be able to move into the adjacent hex in order to declare combat against it.

Pete1966 wrote:

6. If I‘ve read the rules precisely every ground unit in range with AA capability is allowed to fire against an enemy air unit which was previousely detected by a ground or EWDA unit regardeless if it's the target of the attack itself.
If this is the fact, I think that there is no chance of coming through a group of soviet mechanized divisions with an air defense unit?! They can fire twice (AA range of two) with a rating of 4. Two divisions and one AA-unit (no artillery, HQ or engineer unit taken into account) in an advantageous line-up can fire six times with a rating of 4 against the attacker before they can drop the first bomb (not to mention the way back)!? That‘s just for stealth units or kamikaze!


That's right, Paragraph 38 R-9 states that ground-to-air combat can occur once for each unit, for each hex that the detected air units enter within range. Air units would need good ECM ratings to survive unscathed if approaching such a stack of anti-air capability.
I think you might have made a mistake on the anti-air range in your example. The maximum combat (not detection) range of the best anti-air units only extends as far as adjacent hexes, and many units can only anti-air in their own hex (see Ins 2). Any air unit that takes a hit must abort (19 R-4) but combat is simultaneous, so if they've made it to the bombardment hex they can still resolve their own attacks first.
(Edit: last sentence incorrect. Air units may only attack first if undetected. If detected and hit by anti-air they must abort before attacking)

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Jakub Kircun
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porkbelly wrote:
Any air unit that takes a hit must abort (19 R-4) but combat is simultaneous, so if they've made it to the bombardment hex they can still resolve their own attacks first.


I was under the impression that if the attacking air unit is detected prior to its bombardment it can be attacked by any AA capable units before resolving the bombardment attack (39 L-2). Therefore, if the AA attack was successful in aborting the air-unit, wouldn't it be unable to make its bombardment attack? At least that's how I've interpreted the rules.

However if the air unit was not detected, then it would get to make its bombardment attack first, at which point it would be automatically detected, and any AA capable units could fire on it post-bombardment.
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Mike D
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Thanks, yes, you're absolutely correct, my mistake... and it does make more sense for anti-air to be able to deflect attackers before they can drop bombs. I'm sure I've come across that several times in my own games, not sure now if I got it right.

The sentence I stumbled over there in the Abort rules (19 R-4) refers to 'simultaneous combat' which is Air-Air. Agreed (39 L-2) clarifies the order of attacks for air-ground/ground-air based on detection. If the air unit is hit and survives it must abort, and cannot attack.
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Mircea Pauca
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As I understand, against AA range 2 (AA units and Soviet divisions):

If detected: 2 AA fires before, 1 after. (The hex moving out, right?)
If undetected: 2 after.

And that on the whole attacker sortie of up to 3 air units.
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Jakub Kircun
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ROMagister wrote:
As I understand, against AA range 2 (AA units and Soviet divisions):

If detected: 2 AA fires before, 1 after. (The hex moving out, right?)
If undetected: 2 after.

And that on the whole attacker sortie of up to 3 air units.


Seems right to me.
 
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Mircea Pauca
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I was not aware that being attacked with defender in Hasty Assault also gives x2 to defender. It must be a newer ruling?

I was puzzled by this aspect too. I had assumed that being attacked in an assault formation consumes supply as the default Movement to Contact and with no bonus (x1 like MC too).
 
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