Nick Matt
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i made this as a reply to a session, but i think it's nice for it's own thread

i find the difficulty on hastur a bit lacking, 2 mysteries! what a great idea.. the mysteries must be terrible! but not all them are..they should be just a little bit harder imo


the problem with hastur for me is that some mysteries are way too easy, so im planning just removing them, since it's only 2 mysteries, if one or both of them are easy, then there's no point..50% or 100% of the mysteries are easy in one session

or we could make it 3 mysteries...or just adjustments to the mysteries to be harder so they worth 1,5 mystery each..


the key and portal mystery is fine,except it should need more gates on the mystery to be complete, 1 for 4 players seems way too easy..finding the way

the bane one is really interesting and fun. i'd keep it,but maybe if it NEEDED to solve your bane,then i'd be REALLY brutal!! Ravages of Blight

the epic monster one is awesome, it takes way long to kill it,but maybe it should hit a bit harder Spawn of Hastur

the clues one is vanilla, the clues on cities are pretty bad, so its fine ,he who is not to be named

the closing gates one seems great at first,like wow really interesting and hard mystery, BUT the current omen bit ruins it, close 2 gates to solve the mystery? and we need 2 mysteries?with 4 players? wtf, way too easy..( Beneath the Alien sky ,yes you could argue there isnt a gate matching the omen all the time. BUT you can just wait,it makes you finish it in half effort anyway..

cities on the lake needs 4 gates and 8 clues? thats a mystery

now these, i find REALLY lacking

King in yellow encounters are just, nothing too serious as far iv seen..i remember having a hard time with Rleyh, i think this one is much easier

and the yellow sign is just...auto completed, yes sanity can be vital in hastur, but you're just careful and its so easy to solve...wtf. maybe add it at the start of hastur mysteries, but it wont count for mysteries needed to win, then it seems great ^_^ (flavor win, seeing the yellow sign, losing sanity, making you softer for hastur)



i really like the bane and his ability


impairements suck too, which is awesome


another thing to note is that the new investigators included in the expansion seem too strong, +4 to acquire assets without debt? from any space? wtff. no bad conditions? free trinkets? free spells?

so that adds to it aswell.

he's definately easier than yig, maybe even easier than syzygy too.

tl;dr it's a real nice expansion, but the 2 mysteries mechanic and the mysteries dont work that well together on the hard scale , harder mysteries or more mysteries to win would be sweet for me ,maybe they didnt plan to make it hard, or they didnt tune it enough..
also strong investigators! if you want a harder game dont use them, but they are fun to play

what do you think?
 
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Jon W
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Grimstringer wrote:
what do you think?

As I noted under that session, I'm not sure the mysteries alone are to blame (other than Yellow Sign). There's just a lot of variance when you get anything that advances (let alone solves) a mystery outside its normal parameters. Those things are fairly rare, but I think they were designed with the premise that the chances of getting one in a game would be a great boost, but not enough to win. And the odds of getting two is vanishingly small.

With Hastur, though, you only need one and the game is basically done.

Now, how to fix Yellow Sign? Maybe put the tokens on cities *furthest* away (possibly tedious) or require a successful encounter? Or how about this: put tokens on locations with clues and require a successful research encounter (taking the token instead of the clue).
 
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Zen Shrugs
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Just had my first game against Hastur (with all seven expansions released to date, up to Cities in Ruin) and was a bit taken aback by how easy he was.

I used only two investigators, which usually makes for a tough game, and they were random picks as well. I was also a bit rusty when it came to Eldritch Horror. Yet I won comfortably with Doom at 6 or 7 and half the Mythos deck remaining. Never felt particularly pressured, even though the second Rumour was a nasty tentacle one that could have ended the game in 2-4 turns (Bargain with Nyarlathotep). On the other hand, I did have a lot of good luck - one of the randomly drawn Investigators was Jenny Barnes...

Before playing Hastur, I tried out the two Dreamlands AOs (Hypnos and Atlach-Nacha) with two investigators each, and was destroyed in proper Eldritch Horror fashion. So Hastur left me scratching my head. One game isn't exactly scientific data, but still.

The biggest issue was that my first Mystery was 'The King in Yellow', which doesn't seem any harder than a typical Special Encounter Mystery for other AOs. I suppose it can't really ask for twice the usual number of Special Encounters due to the available card count. Edit: Oops - forgot that other SE Mysteries for other AOs only ask for half the number of investigators to complete them. blush Maybe I just got lucky with the encounter cards I drew?

My second Mystery was the one that requires you to get Clues to earn the Key to Carcosa Artifact and then close a Gate. That one seemed appropriate in terms of difficulty and the sort of challenge I'd been expecting.

Browsing the forums here, it looks like the main offenders are the following:


1. Two of Hastur's Mysteries appear to be much easier than his other ones ('The King in Yellow' and 'The Yellow Sign').

(Caveat: I can't be sure about 'The King in Yellow' as I only saw a couple of the Special Encounter cards, but it doesn't seem any more challenging than, say, 'R'lyeh Risen' for Cthulhu. Edit: Oops again--you do need to complete twice as many cards. But see my point about advancing the active Mystery below.)

Because Hastur only requires two solved Mysteries to win, pulling one of these seems to make the game much easier. This may account for the swingy difficulty reported on the boards here.

One solution could be simply to take these cards out. Hastur has eight Mysteries, so removing two isn't a big deal and would just bring him into line with the other AOs. It would be a shame to lose the 'King in Yellow' Special Encounter deck, though. Any Hastur game without the chance of sneaking into a theatre to disrupt a play just wouldn't be right. whistle

Another option is to tweak these two Mysteries as noted by other posters above. (Here's a possibility - how about using some of the fan-made King in Yellow cards by James Driver? His 'Performance Deck' could come in handy...)

A third idea might be to treat these two Mysteries as 'gotcha cards' that don't count toward the win condition. That is, 'The King in Yellow' or 'The Yellow Sign' don't count as one of your solved Mysteries. You still need to complete them to bring out the next (actual, hard) Mystery, though. Effectively they'd be roadblocks or rumour-style distractions/annoyances. I think this would work for 'The King in Yellow' because it's interesting, but 'The Yellow Sign' would probably feel like an infuriating time-waster.


2. Any card with the rare 'solve the active Mystery' effect will have a huge effect in a Hastur game.

This effect instantly completes 50% of the win condition no matter how tough the Mystery would normally be.

The more common 'advance the active Mystery', on the other hand, isn't nearly so game-breaking because a tougher Mystery will require more advancements. ('Advance' does let you skip Special Encounter cards, though, which can make those Mysteries a lot easier--not to mention dull, because you miss a lot of the Special Encounter flavour text.)

I don't normally like to peek at the backs of double-sided cards, but in this case I did a quick search and found one big offender that I've now removed from the game:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Signs of Carcosa includes a Promise of Power (Deal) Condition that solves the active Mystery when it flips. (The other PoP cards have different effects.)


I took the above card out because it's a random roll to flip, rather than requiring you to put Clues/Monsters/Gates etc on the card. As such it can come out of nowhere and stop a game in its tracks. The game may as well say "surprise, you win for no effort whatsoever!"

IIRC there's at least one other 'solve the active Mystery' card (in the Mountains of Madness expansion), but that's a Task Unique Asset, which at least requires you to work for the reward. There are also a great many Tasks in the game now, so the chances of getting that one are slim. The card type mentioned in the spoiler text above, on the other hand, only comes in four variants so far (that I know of). So if you pick one up, you have a 1-in-4 chance of having a 'solve the active Mystery' up your sleeve.


As I said, I've only played one game against Hastur, so please chime in if you think my assessment of the difficulty issues aren't accurate.

Also the Hastur art on his AO sheet looks ridiculous and is the highly superficial reason I didn't bother playing him until now.
 
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Rob Hart
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I just played my first game against Hastur, too, and found the same thing. I had Under an Alien Sky and Finding the Way as the two mysteries. I think the big reason it was so easy is that both mysteries compelled me to take actions which reduced stress on my characters. They both involved gate closing and clue hunting, which is what those characters would be doing anyway... so I basically didn't have to spend a good chunk of my limited resources completing the mystery like a normal EH game.
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Nick Matt
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i think it's safe to say that with low investigator acount hastur "big" 2 mysteries dont scale good at all.


i think it will do okay with 4+ though, painfully long,(and hard?)
 
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