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Star Wars: Armada» Forums » General

Subject: Super pumped about liberty and interdictor... only one complaint... rss

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Jim Dim
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I have to say that I'm more excited about these two ships than I've been for a while.

If I only had ONE complaint it would be purely aesthetic.

Does anyone else think the scale is kinda backwards on these two?

The liberty was supposed to be somewhat comparable to an SD, and it appears much tinier than it seems like it should, while on a huge base. Conversely, I think the interdictor looks bad ass, BUT doesn't it seem kinda big? I mean, its supposed to be a medium size ship, right?

It makes me think that two different design teams at FFG were going at these two models and didn't talk to each other until nearly complete, then were like, "uh oh... they don't really look right on the size... oh well... we have a deadline."

I know someone will end up posting some wookiepedia thing that gives the meter length and therefore, they are correct... but heres the deal, wookipedia isn't necessarily correct either - thats just some other person who put stats in there - FFG is basically paving the way with making a set of miniatures that are all basically going to be accepted as legitimate and pretty much "canon-ish", so why not make an executive decision and be like, "This looks more appropriate". I'm pretty sure people would have been like, "yep, thats it!"

Overall, can't wait to try the new mechanics and paint them!

Jim
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Kyle
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Imperial ships are just bigger as they need to be, to hold the cool.
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Julien Durand
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Great post Jim, thanks.
The best information about these new waves! Have you got the flotillas?
 
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Derry Salewski
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Yeah they've made some of these models kinda unenjoyable with their acale choices.

Put the AFmk2 in that picture
 
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Jim Dim
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I almost think the AFmk2 is about right... the only real thing I ever had to kinda go off of was Rebellion the old PC game... I thought that game was awesome, so when I think of these ships, thats normally what I go to for sizing in my head.

Maybe the Liberty cruiser is supposed to be that small, just seems like it could have been as simple as increasing the size on a rendered graphic before hitting print to me. I think they did the same thing with Home One unfortunately.

I don't know if I would say unenjoyable, but yeah, I agree. The SD is by far the cornerstone of how awesome they could make the models, and have sheer size look great on the table - but a lot of the others have fallen short in my opinion.

Still a beautiful game though.

 
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Jim Dim
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No I haven't! a good size comparison of those next to the big ones would be good too!
 
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Frank Lee

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Yes, technically correct, but not quite satisfying to look at. I imagine I'll get used to it after awhile (in meantime I just accept that the MC80 is secretly twice as big as it looks at "large scale" even if they won't admit it).
 
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Phil Triest
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I really hope to see a Rebel AFmk2 in the next season of Rebels. Would be really nice if they marry it up into the series for more cred. Still a very under appreciated Rebel ship.
 
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Jim Dim
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I actually loved the AFmk2 from Rebellion the pc game the most. It seemed like a very good versatile ship overall. I always thought that the way Armada incorporated it was awesome. It seemed very right.
 
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Michael Ptak
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The A/F-MK-II is actually from Empire at War, not Rebellion. The Rebellion model is the A/F-MK-I.

The Interdictor is also bigger than I expected, rivaling VSDs in size. I can't wait to see someone try to light them though.
 
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Jim Dim
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Ah yes, Empire at war, another great pc game, despite bugginess. I hated ground combat and only every did space battles because of how much fun they were.
 
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Christopher Westphal
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That is kinda stupid. I never realized that the Liberty was on a bigger base than the Interdictor.
 
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Noel
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I am disappointed with the size of the big Rebel ships.
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Red Castle
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Well, first of all, the game is not in scale and never was advertise as such. If it was, the CR90 would be much much smaller.

But as for the difference between the Liberty and the Imperial Class, it's actually pretty close to what it should be. According to the Star Wars database (so official data and not just given by some fans), The ISD is 1600m long and the Liberty 1200m. So the Liberty should be about 75% the lenght of a Star Destroyer. Looking at your pictures, that seems close to it.

As for the Interdictor, it's the canon version from the Rebels show. There is no data about the lenght, but if we look in the show, there is a Arquiten Light Cruiser (250m) that crash on it and it looks like about the lenght of the Command Deck it crashes on. So if I take that as a reference, I can estimate the lenght of the Interdictor to 1000-1200m. So, about the same lenght of the Liberty.

Now why did they still put the Interdictor on medium base instead of a Large like the Home One or the Liberty if it has about the same lenght? My guess is for gameplay. Putting it on a Large base would have meant that an Interdictor Equiped with a tractor beam would have affected a Large ship; It would also made it impossible to drop out an Interdictor in a Hyperspace Assault Objective; Motti would have gave it 3 Hull instead of 2; Etc.
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Noel
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Red Castle wrote:
Well, first of all, the game is not in scale and never was advertise as such. If it was, the CR90 would be much much smaller.



Yes, we are all aware of it. The game has thus far maintained a relative scale rather than an exact one.

Quote:
But as for the difference between the Liberty and the Imperial Class, it's actually pretty close to what it should be. According to the Star Wars database (so official data and not just given by some fans), The ISD is 1600m long and the Liberty 1200m. So the Liberty should be about 75% the lenght of a Star Destroyer. Looking at your pictures, that seems close to it.


As we have already established, the game does not have a consistent scale. If you are going to argue that scale is not consistent and, therefore, we should not hold the game pieces to one, your ratio comparison doesn't work here.
A quick search online shows that Liberty ships could go as long as 1500m and that 1200m is the minimum size.
The CR90 is a mere 127m. Relatively, then the ISD and the Liberty are the same size in comparison to the CR90.


Quote:
As for the Interdictor, it's the canon version from the Rebels show. There is no data about the lenght, but if we look in the show, there is a Arquiten Light Cruiser (250m) that crash on it and it looks like about the lenght of the Command Deck it crashes on. So if I take that as a reference, I can estimate the lenght of the Interdictor to 1000-1200m. So, about the same lenght of the Liberty.


Wookipedia lists 1600m. Relatively speaking, it is the same size as Liberty and ISD.


Quote:
Now why did they still put the Interdictor on medium base instead of a Large like the Home One or the Liberty if it has about the same lenght? My guess is for gameplay. Putting it on a Large base would have meant that an Interdictor Equiped with a tractor beam would have affected a Large ship; It would also made it impossible to drop out an Interdictor in a Hyperspace Assault Objective; Motti would have gave it 3 Hull instead of 2; Etc.


It shouldn't be a medium ship.
 
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Red Castle
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n815e wrote:
Red Castle wrote:
Well, first of all, the game is not in scale and never was advertise as such. If it was, the CR90 would be much much smaller.



Yes, we are all aware of it. The game has thus far maintained a relative scale rather than an exact one.

Quote:
But as for the difference between the Liberty and the Imperial Class, it's actually pretty close to what it should be. According to the Star Wars database (so official data and not just given by some fans), The ISD is 1600m long and the Liberty 1200m. So the Liberty should be about 75% the lenght of a Star Destroyer. Looking at your pictures, that seems close to it.


As we have already established, the game does not have a consistent scale. If you are going to argue that scale is not consistent and, therefore, we should not hold the game pieces to one, your ratio comparison doesn't work here.
A quick search online shows that Liberty ships could go as long as 1500m and that 1200m is the minimum size.
The CR90 is a mere 127m. Relatively, then the ISD and the Liberty are the same size in comparison to the CR90.


What I said is that even if the scale is relative and the designer don't have to follow it, they are actually pretty close to what they should be: 75% the lenght of a Imperial Star Destroyer. Here's the source for the Canon version of the Liberty, nowhere does it says that it can be as long as 1500m:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Liberty

If you don't thrust Wookiepedia, I think we can at least agree that the Liberty lenght was close to the MC80 Home One. Here is the data for the Home One from the official Star Wars Databank, again listed at 1200m:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/home-one


n815e wrote:

Quote:
As for the Interdictor, it's the canon version from the Rebels show. There is no data about the lenght, but if we look in the show, there is a Arquiten Light Cruiser (250m) that crash on it and it looks like about the lenght of the Command Deck it crashes on. So if I take that as a reference, I can estimate the lenght of the Interdictor to 1000-1200m. So, about the same lenght of the Liberty.


Wookipedia lists 1600m. Relatively speaking, it is the same size as Liberty and ISD.


The Interdictor you are talking about is the one from the Extended Universe (now Legend), which was a refitted Imperial Star Destroyer, so it was the same lenght as a ISD.

But, as I said, FFG went with the new canon version showed in Season 2 of the Rebels cartoon:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/imperial-interdictor

For this version, there is still no official data on the lenght. But, again like I said, if you take the show as a reference it should be about 1000-1200m long.
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Noel
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Red Castle wrote:


What I said is that even if the scale is relative and the designer don't have to follow it, they are actually pretty close to what they should be: 75% the lenght of a Imperial Star Destroyer.


Actually, that isn't what you wrote. Even if I hadn't quoted you in full, your post is there to see in its entirety.


Quote:
Here's the source for the Canon version of the Liberty, nowhere does it says that it can be as long as 1500m:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Liberty


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC80_Liberty_type_Star_Cruise...
Also Wookieepedia.



n815e wrote:

Quote:
As for the Interdictor, it's the canon version from the Rebels show. There is no data about the lenght, but if we look in the show, there is a Arquiten Light Cruiser (250m) that crash on it and it looks like about the lenght of the Command Deck it crashes on. So if I take that as a reference, I can estimate the lenght of the Interdictor to 1000-1200m. So, about the same lenght of the Liberty.


Wookipedia lists 1600m. Relatively speaking, it is the same size as Liberty and ISD.


The Interdictor you are talking about is the one from the Extended Universe (now Legend), which was a refitted Imperial Star Destroyer, so it was the same lenght as a ISD.

But, as I said, FFG went with the new canon version showed in Season 2 of the Rebels cartoon:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/imperial-interdictor

For this version, there is still no official data on the lenght. But, again like I said, if you take the show as a reference it should be about 1000-1200m long.[/q]

Even if your guess is correct, the relative size would be the same. It should still be a large ship.

 
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Red Castle
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n815e wrote:
Red Castle wrote:


What I said is that even if the scale is relative and the designer don't have to follow it, they are actually pretty close to what they should be: 75% the lenght of a Imperial Star Destroyer.


Actually, that isn't what you wrote. Even if I hadn't quoted you in full, your post is there to see in its entirety.


Quote:
Here's the source for the Canon version of the Liberty, nowhere does it says that it can be as long as 1500m:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Liberty


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC80_Liberty_type_Star_Cruise...
Also Wookieepedia.



n815e wrote:

Quote:
As for the Interdictor, it's the canon version from the Rebels show. There is no data about the lenght, but if we look in the show, there is a Arquiten Light Cruiser (250m) that crash on it and it looks like about the lenght of the Command Deck it crashes on. So if I take that as a reference, I can estimate the lenght of the Interdictor to 1000-1200m. So, about the same lenght of the Liberty.


Wookipedia lists 1600m. Relatively speaking, it is the same size as Liberty and ISD.


The Interdictor you are talking about is the one from the Extended Universe (now Legend), which was a refitted Imperial Star Destroyer, so it was the same lenght as a ISD.

But, as I said, FFG went with the new canon version showed in Season 2 of the Rebels cartoon:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/imperial-interdictor

For this version, there is still no official data on the lenght. But, again like I said, if you take the show as a reference it should be about 1000-1200m long.


Even if your guess is correct, the relative size would be the same. It should still be a large ship.

[/q]

I thought by the way I wrote it at first that it was clear that it was two distinct point not relative to each other, that it's not because they don't have to respect scale that those two ships don't actually look close to scale to each other. If it was not clear, it might have to do with the fact that I'm French and doing my best to speak in English.

The link you posted about the Liberty is about the Legend version. When Disney aquired Star Wars, the Extended Universe was changed to Legend Status, so not official anymore. The data you are looking for is from the Canon version, the link I posted earlier.

As for the Interdictor that should have been on a Large base, yes they could have and visually speaking, it would have made sense. But like I said earlier, I guess (only a guess here) they did it for gameplay reasons. Like they did in X-Wing with the Aggressor.
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Jim Dim
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So you two (Red Castle and n815e) are kinda saying, in a roundabout way, what my original thought was at the top:

"Scale" in almost every example is still very nebulous... Whether or not it is understood that there is a 'relative' scale, and if they follow it religiously or not doesn't really matter. The Scales determined by 'some guy' on wookipedia as much as I want to believe is "right" probably isn't. Its just made up. Because... there are none of these ships in real life (unfortunately).

Therefore!!!: FFG could have made an executive decision and said, "we actually feel it makes more sense to be X - our community would have said, "yep, thats what it is now." There wouldn't have been much more arguing because as a technical game that picks rules based on someone thematic and realistic reasons, the decision would have made sense, looked good, felt good, etc etc.

Because the alternative is, there is a ship on the table that has the same 'power output' (dice) relative to a Star Destroyer, yet is pretty dwarfed by it???

In the end the only thing we have to go off are those cool deep site rumors and old books made from star wars developers and dudes back in the day - and all Im saying is they can be bent and changed to continue to be something better, which is how star wars has grown (sometimes faltered yes) but grown so cool for the most part - I like the one where the Mon Cal ships were not war ships, but passenger liners that have been re-fitted.

Im my line of thinking - War ship = originally developed for that sort of things = no frills = more efficiency.

Re-fitted from luxury = tons of ad ons = requiring as much real estate to fit the immense amount of ad-on power generation and armament in order to go toe to toe with something as formidable as a Star Destroyer.

I love being a nerd...
 
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Red Castle
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gilgalad35 wrote:
So you two (Red Castle and n815e) are kinda saying, in a roundabout way, what my original thought was at the top:

"Scale" in almost every example is still very nebulous... Whether or not it is understood that there is a 'relative' scale, and if they follow it religiously or not doesn't really matter. The Scales determined by 'some guy' on wookipedia as much as I want to believe is "right" probably isn't. Its just made up. Because... there are none of these ships in real life (unfortunately).

Therefore!!!: FFG could have made an executive decision and said, "we actually feel it makes more sense to be X - our community would have said, "yep, thats what it is now." There wouldn't have been much more arguing because as a technical game that picks rules based on someone thematic and realistic reasons, the decision would have made sense, looked good, felt good, etc etc.

Because the alternative is, there is a ship on the table that has the same 'power output' (dice) relative to a Star Destroyer, yet is pretty dwarfed by it???

In the end the only thing we have to go off are those cool deep site rumors and old books made from star wars developers and dudes back in the day - and all Im saying is they can be bent and changed to continue to be something better, which is how star wars has grown (sometimes faltered yes) but grown so cool for the most part - I like the one where the Mon Cal ships were not war ships, but passenger liners that have been re-fitted.

Im my line of thinking - War ship = originally developed for that sort of things = no frills = more efficiency.

Re-fitted from luxury = tons of ad ons = requiring as much real estate to fit the immense amount of ad-on power generation and armament in order to go toe to toe with something as formidable as a Star Destroyer.

I love being a nerd...


First, I've been careful to validate the data of ships with the official Star Wars database, so it's not just some data in wookiepedia created by some dude in his basement, they coincide with the official data.

Secondly, we know that FFG must have the approval from Lucasfilm before releasing any ships and their informations come from there. So, I don't think FFG could have decided to make the Home One or Liberty bigger justbecause they felt like it... they have to respect the lore. And it's been even more true since Disney aquired Star Wars.

Third, I'm not so sure that the community would have said ''yep, that's what it is now''... I think you underestimate how much a lot of fans would have get angry if FFG decided to say ''screw the lore, we decide the size of the ships now!'' That would have been a big finger to the Star Wars lore by FFG.

So in the end, feel free to ignore it, but FFG went with the official data to make their ships. I'm pretty sure that if they could have made the Home One or Liberty as big as a Star Destroyer, they would have. It means they could have sell it for 49.95$ instead of 39.95$ and people would have buy it anyway. Since they're in the buisness to make money, I'm pretty sure they would have jumped on the occasion if they were able to.

For my part, I'm glad that they respect the lore of the Star Wars Universe, no matter how silly you think it looks.
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Allen T
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Red Castle wrote:
I think you underestimate how much a lot of fans would have get angry if FFG decided to say ''screw the lore, we decide the size of the ships now!'' That would have been a big finger to the Star Wars lore by FFG.


The ships are, though, in a sliding scale. Going by the size of the monster ISD as the baseline, the CR90 would be, what, 1/4 of its current size? Somewhere around the size of the current A-Wings. And the current A-Wing would be, what, the size of the peg you attach it with? And a lot of fans were pretty upset when the game was first announced, and to this day, that everything isn't to some specific scale like they are in X-Wing. But considering no one plays Epic games in X-Wing, and those ships are not huge sellers, and trying to get people to buy 3 ISD for a 400 point list if they were $100 each would be a stretch, when I've only managed one ISD at $40...
 
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monkeykins wrote:
Red Castle wrote:
I think you underestimate how much a lot of fans would have get angry if FFG decided to say ''screw the lore, we decide the size of the ships now!'' That would have been a big finger to the Star Wars lore by FFG.


The ships are, though, in a sliding scale. Going by the size of the monster ISD as the baseline, the CR90 would be, what, 1/4 of its current size? Somewhere around the size of the current A-Wings. And the current A-Wing would be, what, the size of the peg you attach it with? And a lot of fans were pretty upset when the game was first announced, and to this day, that everything isn't to some specific scale like they are in X-Wing. But considering no one plays Epic games in X-Wing, and those ships are not huge sellers, and trying to get people to buy 3 ISD for a 400 point list if they were $100 each would be a stretch, when I've only managed one ISD at $40...


Yup, the CR90 would be pretty small indeed. I once saw a picture of a flotilla of CR90 a player made in scale with the ISD, it was actually pretty neat.

Look, I really don't care if it's in scale or not. All I wanted to point out at first is that even though it looks small, it's actually pretty spot on compared to the ISD.

Now, if people want to continue to be disapointed because they think it looks too small, that's their problem.
 
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Red Castle wrote:
Now, if people want to continue to be disapointed because they think it looks too small, that's their problem.


Talking about people being disappointed because it looks too small brings a lot of inappropriate jokes to mind... Just saying.

I agree with Red Castle on this.

FFG tried to find a balance between true scale and playability. I think they did fine with that goal in mind. Hence why the CR90 isn't to scale with the ISD.

Home One used to be larger than 1200M until someone at Lucas or Disney decided it was going to be 1200m. So it isn't the guy who updated wookieepedia that is arbitrarily making things up, it's the guy at Disney.

The sliding scale occurs between ships on different base sizes. Small ships to medium ships, medium ships to large. But, the goal seemed to be to have a large base ships in scale with each other. All medium ships in scale with each other. All small base ships in scale with each other. FFG seems to have followed that.

The thing with the MC80 Liberty is that while it is 400M shorter than an ISD, it also has MUCH less mass, which is why it looks so much smaller.

The Interdictor is a medium base ship and the model should be larger in relation to large base ships as a result.
 
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Tim Bailey
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The sliding scale ALSO means we may get Super Star Destroyers at some point! Hopefully sooner rather than later.
 
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Christopher Westphal
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I just think that the Liberty should either be nearly the size of Home One to justify a large base, or be a medium base. Sure, the game uses a sliding scale, but so far has kept all the models on each base size relative with each other ship in that base size, which is more important to me.

I'm totally fine with the Interdictor being it's size and base type, I just assumed from the previews they were both on medium bases, which is where the Liberty looks wierd.
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