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High Frontier (3rd edition)» Forums » News

Subject: Progress Report? rss

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Will H.
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Would a backer please repost the "Progress Report" update?

Ares/OSS claims to have issued me a refund, but it hasn't hit my credit card yet, and in the meantime, I'm still a backer--without access to the project updates.
 
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Will H.
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On second thought, you may want to PM it to me, and I'll repost it to avoid attribution.

I'd hate for Ares/OSS to retaliate against someone for sharing news with another backer.
 
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Will H.
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Got it. Thank you, all!

I really hope the third edition gets published for you backers.
 
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Simon Skov
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In case any other non-backers are interested in the August 13th Progress Report update, here it is:

Quote:
There has been communication between the project managers and the print bureau over the past couple of weeks to clarify details and answer questions that the bureau has had over the files and production plans. We have requested proofs of the printed materials.

While the discussion has gone on, we updated the playmats to include the improvements that Drake suggested on the files that the game designer submitted to us.

Packaging details, card dimensions, some changes to the contents versus our initial contract with the print bureau and the resulting costs, as well as improving some of the resolution on print files were all in the mix of these discussions.

I will continue to share these minor details until we get to the really good stuff like proof images and an improved time frame.

Oh, and hey- Happy One Year Anniversary, folks! Who knew we'd all be together THIS long...


Frankly, I find the idea of "retaliation" a little far-fetched, but let's not get into that whole thing.
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Steve Carey
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nom_ wrote:
Frankly, I find the idea of "retaliation" a little far-fetched...


It's not far-fetched - AM/OSS selectively, without request or notice, has been terminating KS pledges of backers who have posted negative comments on the campaign page.

At least 5 backers have posted here that I'm aware of, don't know how many others this has occurred to.

That fits my definition of "retaliation".
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Scott Heenan
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Steve Carey wrote:
It's not far-fetched - AM/OSS selectively, without request or notice, has been terminating KS pledges of backers who have posted negative comments on the campaign page.

At least 2 backers have posted here that I'm aware of, don't know how many others this has occurred to.

That fits my definition of "retaliation".


That's just... well, wrong. Is that even allowed under Kickstarter's terms? I mean if someone asked to drop their pledge and to get a refund, that be one thing. But to force it on someone for expressing their anger about how long this is taking? That's just awful.
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Will H.
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I have mixed emotions about it. I think the majority of us that expressed our discontent were civil about it. Interesting situation for an ethics class I think.

I don't think the 3rd edition will be an improvement over the 2nd edition (which I already have) so I'm happy to be done with it. I do consider myself a "super fan" of High Frontier, so it has been a very disappointing Kickstarter campaign.

As others have stated, I would like to echo my support for Phil Ecklund and Sierra Madre games. They are both fantastic, and I will continue to support them enthusiastically.
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Rich James
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I think the 3rd edition will be a big improvement over the 2nd edition, just on the strength of the rules alone. The lander burns are an elegant improvement that simplifies while also improving the modeling of landing requirements. And the new fuel strip is another superb improvement.

You can certainly print and play this game. Zazzle map, print (or buy, in my case) the cards, print the fuel and player cards and add in pieces for rockets, claims, colonies, etc. That's how I acquired a 2nd edition copy. Buying one was cost prohibitive since it has been out of print for so long. The Kickstarter will make it possible to buy a 3rd edition of this game at a decent price. Throw in the fact that it also includes Interstellar and I think it's a great deal.
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Marco Herreras
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Hi all, just a quick consultation: I missed the KS campaign for 3rd but I've found a small retailer selling 2nd for just under 30 EUR.
I have been drooling to play HF since 1st edition but it was always too difficult to obtain here and also the prospect of explaining the rules to non english speaking players (nearly all my friends) was slightly discouraging ... I am split between getting 2nd edition right away or waiting for better rules and new tech IF the 3rd ever sees light of day... the 30 EUR investment would delay other game purchases for a while but this seems a great opportunity for an out-of-print game...
So, should I buy 2nd now? Many thanks!!
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Simon Skov
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30 EUR seems like a good deal to me. In my opinion, the main selling points of the third edition is the introduction of Landing Burns (landing rules slighty steamlined, makes it a bit more difficult to land on heavy sites) and the Fuel Strip (new way to track mass, propellant and its consumption), with new cards, glories, and alternate crew cards being gravy. Other changes I would classify as minor tweaks. If that seems compelling to you, you might want to wait for whenever 3rd edition lands, but I've had a lot of fun playing 2nd edition, and it's perfectly (well, reasonably; we are talking an Eklund game here) playable.
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Marco Herreras
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Many thanks, Simón! Yeah, I thought I'd rather play 2nd now than wait years for a chance of getting reasonably priced the 3rd...
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David G. Cox Esq.
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Ciniconoclasta wrote:
Hi all, just a quick consultation: I missed the KS campaign for 3rd but I've found a small retailer selling 2nd for just under 30 EUR.
I have been drooling to play HF since 1st edition but it was always too difficult to obtain here and also the prospect of explaining the rules to non english speaking players (nearly all my friends) was slightly discouraging ... I am split between getting 2nd edition right away or waiting for better rules and new tech IF the 3rd ever sees light of day... the 30 EUR investment would delay other game purchases for a while but this seems a great opportunity for an out-of-print game...
So, should I buy 2nd now? Many thanks!!


What is the seller's name and does he have two copies?

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Marco Herreras
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Sadly he does not even have one: when you go to the purchasing link it says "reserve", ie pay now and wait for ages... so it is waiting for 3rd Edition I guess.
Well this is a valuable lesson, overfunded games in KS can be deceiving and never materialize... I shall be more conservative and cautious in future ks campaigns.
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Steve Carey
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Now that I've requested a refund, I'm so glad that I held onto my 2nd Edition of HF, despite several opportunities to sell it (I did so because of a near complete lack of faith in Ares Magazine/One Small Step's ability to properly handle this project).

Whew...
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Will H.
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High Frontier will peak w/ the 2nd edition for me as well. I'm happy with my 2nd edition version of the game.

After "Refundgate", I'll certainly not be purchasing the game at retail.

I will continue to support Phil and SMG, but not Ares/OSS. Never again.
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Marco Herreras
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So, are there any news of future 2nd reprints?
 
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Simon Skov
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There won't be any. Any reprints from this point on will be 3rd edition. Right now that means OSS. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.
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Richard Pardoe
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Steve Carey wrote:
Now that I've requested a refund, ....

I did as well, but received a boilerplate (because several others received the same comment) response:

We are not offering refunds. Pledges have been spent on the production of the games already. You will receive your game.

I find it interesting that people who post and complain are given refunds while those who quietly enquire behind the scenes are denied the same. It encourages people just to get louder and post publicly about their refund requests which doesn't seem to a good way to proceed at all.
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David E
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Their communication has been poor and they are way behind schedule, but OSS isn't some fly-by-night company. They are still putting out products, and they do appear to be working on HF. So if you wanted the game to begin with, why are you requesting a refund? Do you really think they're going to wind up never producing the game? I think the chances of that are very small.
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Richard Pardoe
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AmadanNaBriona wrote:
So if you wanted the game to begin with, why are you requesting a refund? Do you really think they're going to wind up never producing the game? I think the chances of that are very small.

I own the second edition of the game. I had hoped to support the quality production of the 3rd edition of the game. Tracking the updates (more now than before), there does not appear to be any quality in the process.

How many times has the game been "at the printer" - 3, 4, 5 times now?

Today's update doesn't give one any sense of confidence. The bleed area needs to be increased - this is a specification that should have been known since the beginning. The files are at too low a resolution for printing? This one boggles the mind as the game has had two previous editions printed albeit by different entities.

These sorts of errors should NOT be happening this late in the process, especially for a game that was essentially complete at the time of the kick starter.

That is why I have asked for a refund. Or as Ares/OSS likes to say now - be removed as a backer.
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Marco Herreras
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ok, thanks!
 
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Donald Cleary
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RPardoe wrote:
Steve Carey wrote:
Now that I've requested a refund, ....

I did as well, but received a boilerplate (because several others received the same comment) response:

We are not offering refunds. Pledges have been spent on the production of the games already. You will receive your game.

I find it interesting that people who post and complain are given refunds while those who quietly enquire behind the scenes are denied the same. It encourages people just to get louder and post publicly about their refund requests which doesn't seem to a good way to proceed at all.


The loud ones don't get to comment on the kickstarter page anymore. Only backers can comment. They are sucking up a few lost copies to keep things positive on the backer page. They don't really lose anything, though. Those copies will sell. They just keep their kickstarter looking super successful for retailers and the next kickstarter they do, whatever that is.
 
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Yani
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Honestly, I don't want to get into a debate, and I am no fanboy of anyone (except perhaps Phil Eklund), but I miss the point:

Shit happens, they try to fix it. Could even be they are newbies and shit shouldn't happen. Still they try to fix it, which is A Good Thing (tm). I could understand your point if you are the boss of the company and are looking to fire the responsible person. But as a predictor of successful delivery, their progress report is a good signal for me.


RPardoe wrote:
AmadanNaBriona wrote:
So if you wanted the game to begin with, why are you requesting a refund? Do you really think they're going to wind up never producing the game? I think the chances of that are very small.

I own the second edition of the game. I had hoped to support the quality production of the 3rd edition of the game. Tracking the updates (more now than before), there does not appear to be any quality in the process.

How many times has the game been "at the printer" - 3, 4, 5 times now?

Today's update doesn't give one any sense of confidence. The bleed area needs to be increased - this is a specification that should have been known since the beginning. The files are at too low a resolution for printing? This one boggles the mind as the game has had two previous editions printed albeit by different entities.

These sorts of errors should NOT be happening this late in the process, especially for a game that was essentially complete at the time of the kick starter.

That is why I have asked for a refund. Or as Ares/OSS likes to say now - be removed as a backer.
 
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Roger BW
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A difficulty here is that we've already had experience of Kickstarters that failed to produce any product or refund any money; and to an outsider they looked a lot like this one, coming up with increasingly unconvincing excuses until they suddenly vanished.

"The printer needs higher-resolution files and larger bleeds" is the sort of problem that I would expect to see during pre-Kickstarter negotiations with the printer. I don't readily believe in a new subdivision of the print company that magically needs a totally different set of parameters from what the old one wanted; that's not my experience of print buying. So maybe it's true, but just saying "oh, well, this is happening, that's life" doesn't convince me.

I know nothing about this latest buyer of the Ares Magazine name other than the Kickstarter, but if they suddenly disappear with all the money, I won't be in the least surprised, purely because their updates make them sound like either fools or knaves. Even if they do produce the game, I will never deal with them again.
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