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Subject: A letter to the friends of Leder Games rss

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Patrick Leder
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Hello everyone! Following the excitement of Gencon and the pace shipping out the Kickstarters are going I thought I would talk about everything that has been going on to get us all back on the same page.

Gencon
Last year I got into my family’s Jetta with my good friend Josh and we set out on a trip from Minnesota to Indianapolis for Gencon 2015. I had stayed up most of the night before nervously watching season 3 of the Office while cutting out tiles on foam core. I had panicked a little the week before about how I would do at the convention and how I would present the game. After some reassuring talks with my colleagues I was ready. Also after a nap in the car.

We got to Gencon a bit late but we made it! I set up for a couple of hours at the IGA booth and they let me use their Event table to run demos all day.

I ran a few demos on the first day, including one for Stephanie Straw who was very supportive. The next day I did some time at the IGA booth, demoed a little and settled down into the Event hall to play games the rest of the day. By Saturday David Somerville was there and by the time I got to the Event Hall on Saturday there were people already waiting to play a full game. I ran 7 games back to back that day and had a blast. Josh had to drag me out and get some food in me around 10:30 that night.

By the time I got home I knew we were ready for the Kickstarter. The Kickstarter turned out very positively with us bringing home almost 150,000. After KS took their cut I got to work. I had to redesign some pieces for balance but we spent most of this summer working on production. The game has shipped or is shipping to backers.

This year I went to Gencon with 500 retail games for sale, 20 retail games that were pre-ordered, and about 200 to pass out. We were out of retail units sometime on Saturday afternoon. We started handing out cards and put a link our website for US/Canada folks to order some more. The response was overwhelmingly positive as we received good reviews from Man Vs Meeple, Rahdo mentioned us, and Tom Vasel mentioned us at the top of his live BGG show. I have received many positive comments from new fans of the game.

Pre-Orders
I have a few in the EU I can try to get at once shipping there has stopped for EU customers. I will need to take the US/Canada link down soon so I can do inventory and know for sure how many I can sell down to.

If you forgot to pick yours up during the convention we will convert it to a shipment as we and the depot have time.

Distribution/License
We received many offers for distribution or license partnerships during the convention. I am just starting to dig into those due handling most of the KS shipping this week. Suffice it to say I will soon have to do a second and possibly third print run. If you are in the position to do this, have written, and haven’t received a response give me a couple more days and then reach out to me again. Thank you!

The only thing that is really going to hold us back here is that I need capital to produce the second run. I could get pretty far into it with personal funds, but I don’t want to cut it so tight.

Retail Support
I had a few agreements before going to Gencon that I will honor. I will contact those parties. The rest I will see what I can accommodate, otherwise you will probably just have to wait for the second print run. It is unfortunate but I couldn't print than I did without some financial risk. Hindsight is 20/20 but I made the right choice with the data I had at the time.

KS/Pre-Order Shipping Update
There have been a few hitches organizationally for me. Many of the depots have shipped and I am just working through the issues.

Customer Service
While I appreciate that there are many ways to contact me I am being overwhelmed with communication. It has become difficult to remember where every notes is and it has become hard to know what I am supposed to respond to and what is just a comment.

For customer service issues please contact vastthegame@gmail.com. I think having one consistent method of communication will help me provide better service.

If you have something high level for me like distribution or partnerships, please use the form on my website or contact me and I will provide you with my e-mail address.

There have been a few part replacement issues. We are working with the factory to figure out what to do and will have a solution together soon.

Hired Caryl Tan
Caryl Tan has joined me to provide customer service and some operational support. While I enjoy Customer Service, she is far better at it than I am. This way I will also have time focusing on the road ahead and how to get from point A to point B and possibly enjoy the benefits of more sleep.

Communication
I appreciate how excited everyone is. Please try to use the channels I have provided to communicate. Sending something twice 2 different ways is proving to really slow me down, please try to be considerate.

Future
I am working on a few new projects for future consideration.

Deep: Citizen Empire
This will be an asymmetric game similar to Vast in that it will have roles. It will have a more 4X focus and use different mechanics than Vast. We tried not to hit any of the same notes mechanically. I have reached an agreement with Samuel Bailey of Forbidden Stars fame to co-design and develop the game based on my initial design and concepts. We are going to enter testing in the next week.

Vast: The Mysterious Manor
This will be a stand alone set for Vast. It will feature a new cast of characters in each of the same roles with comparable goals.

The Paladin - He will be slightly more powerful than the Knight but has to plan further ahead that she does. Changing too quickly costs him corruption will have a toll on him as he goes on his adventure. The Paladin wins when the Spider dies.

The Orcs - Instead of fighting like Tribes like the Goblins or having monsters they will fight as individuals on the board. Their Strength is based on how outflanked the Paladin is and they will have a few cards to play. They win when the Paladin dies.

The Spider - She will be able to transform from a Giant Spider, to a collection of small Spiders, or a humanoid caster. She wins when enough of her eggs have hatched, she has fed enough, and she can sneak off into the night.

The Manor - The Manor will have a map that is 7 by 7 and filled with tiles. It will be able to place Wraiths and Poltergeists. The more Wraiths in play the faster darkness falls on the Manor. Eventually he will destroy all of the light in the Manor, consuming all of the rest.

The Witch - The Witch will manipulate the other players, offering them corruption in exchange for short term gains. She is trying to take control of the Manor’s power.

Vast: The Ghost and the Ghoul
We have 2 roles that we have been working on for the main game or they might provide a later game’s spoiler. We were planning as if this was an expansion at first. It will include variant Knights, some new Tribes, a variant Dragon, variant Cave, and a variant Thief.

The Ghoul will move around besting the other roles in combat, while the Ghost tries to get her possessions back together via possession or her anger based telekenesis.

I would like to post some of the other Knights soon and the scenario I designed for them while riding in the van to Gencon.

Miniatures
We have gone back and forth on this topic many times. The problem I see with miniatures as it stands is that down the road the Orcs will require many miniatures and a horde enemy I have designed for a later release will need a piece that can stay secret and is capable of being flipped over when they move to attack.

That being said I have been discussing the issues with a prominent designer in the field and I will keep you posted.

Thank you everyone, especially those that helped in the WIP and the kickstarter. The road ahead is long but I am excited to see where it is going. Please be patient I have an overwhelming amount of communication and I am moving through it as quickly as I can.

Your friend,
Patrick Leder
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Tom Hill
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Well I'm certainly looking forward to throwing more money and good will your way. All your future projects sound captivating. I hope you resolve all your 2nd/3rd printing decisions soon. Do you have any idea on time scales for these projects?

Quality-mini would undoubtedly be popular but will they add much to the game? They may even limit some of your future asymmetric descisions. Who am I kidding - I wouldn't say no.
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Tahsin Shamma
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Can I just explode with awe at this post? Is that allowed?
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Jeremy Salinas
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I love the idea of the Paladin, Orcs, Witch, Spider and especially the Manors since it seems to have a preset start of 7x7 (is that fixed and never changes- cool) !! Seems really awesome and a great variable to the base game. Keep us in the loop - and as always - miniatures are always a good idea.

Despite the initial challenges of learning the nuances of Vast, the game itself is fantastically fresh, fun and completely new to the industry. Every faction is truly asymmetric and experiencing them all should really give people an idea of just how ingenious the design is - so much that all of the roles and mechanics completely interlock with each other.
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Professor of Pain
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I just pre-ordered this from your site. Looking forward to it!
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Sarah Jo
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The upcoming projects all sound so exciting! Will be watching for updates as they come! meeple
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Moose Detective
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My arachnaphobic gf just said "yay manor! nooooo spiders!"

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Samuel Bailey
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I have a friend! <3
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Gregg Speers
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As someone who heard about the game through Man v Meeple right after Gencon and immediately pre-ordered, congratulations on your success!

@Patrick - are you planning on sending an update to those who preordered from your website once you have an assessment of quantities you will be able to fulfill?

Thanks,
Gregg
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Mr Punter
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Awesome post.

This was my 2nd project I backed on KS, and the one I'm most proud of owning and saying I was a part of! Most other KS feel like pre-orders, but this project was a leap of faith on an idea. One that I then enjoyed being on the journey of development with.

I followed avidly during Gen Con and smiled with glee every time I read another positive tweet.

Now get another WIP thread created for the next games - bring them on!
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Patrick Leder
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All orders will be filled. This is not a pre-order its based on current inventory. I don't know why people keep calling it a pre-order.
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Michael Roop
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Congrats Patrick, on yet another great game to go into my collection... It seems I need to keep space open for another upcoming :-)
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Professor of Pain
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GreenM wrote:
All orders will be filled. This is not a pre-order its based on current inventory. I don't know why people keep calling it a pre-order.

Maybe because the website says "order the game now for delivery starting Aug. 15"? So one is sort of ordering ahead of when the order can be fulfilled, as opposed to ordering the game for immediate delivery.
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Patrick Leder
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Well there is that.
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AJ Harris
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I'm sure it's a long way off, yet, and you have better things to concentrate on, but I'm curious how you came up with Orcs and Spider? Orcs, to me, do not particularly scream Mysterious Manor...I think of them more in the woods, fighting out on the plains of Middle-Earth, or battling the Alliance in Azeroth, haha. And although I feel that the Spider would toooootally be in a Mysterious Manor, I don't understand why a Paladin would feel victorious by killing one. My expectation, I think, would be a Vampire, which would turn into a Giant Bat, a collection of small bats, or human form.

Curious what the story would be that prompted you to land where you did? =)
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Patrick Leder
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I have been playing Vast 2 already so its not that far off.

The Spider's actions embody corruption. Plus in the original design the Manor would put down tokens face down on a range of spaces each turn. The Spider could add webs to the Manor's hand and create traps on the board. That mechanic is neat but proved to be a lot of work for not much gain.

I like the Orcs. I am presenting them as a group that raided the manor thinking it was easy pickings but instead got embroiled in this mess. They will be depicted with crude weapons except where they raided the armory.

I have been tasked with not using the undead much in the game's design but I'll take the Vampire back to David.
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I can see some fan trying to make a cave vs manor variant
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AJ Harris
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So much of a tease, there, by saying it's not far off! I'm ready to KickStart it for sure...and I don't even have Crystal Caverns, yet! =)

Haha, I love the idea that the Orcs would be just wandering in to this home thinking it's a simple raid and then get stuck in the middle of a brawl! Quite fun!

And yeah, feel free to chew on that Vampire idea. I think it plays better with what people would perceive as a classic battle (a la Knight & Dragon), but overall, I wouldn't feel put out if it stayed a Spider (although, now that I think more about it, having a 'humanoid caster' and a 'witch' seem pretty similar). Like I said, more curious about why it landed where it did, and you answered that wonderfully. Thanks!
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Dave Lienau
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Mysterious Manor sounds great!

I was honestly expecting a sequel to Vast: TCC a couple years down the road, not potentially a few months after receiving the original.
Excited!

However, I was betting that the second one would be nautical themed. Something like:

(Obligatory Sequel Suggestion)
Vast: Seas of Plunder

Merchants - Win by transporting goods from the Islands to the Market Docks, exchanging goods for money to upgrade ships and eventually buy a house on the mainland and retiring from sailing. Is capable of fending off Pirate and Kraken attacks with certain defensive upgrades. The more Defensive upgrades you equip to a ship the less cargo it can carry.

Pirates - Win by intercepting goods from the Merchant's delivery runs and transporting them to the Pirate's Cove. They can exchange goods for money at fences to purchase upgrades. Is capable of killing the Kraken with certain Offensive upgrades but the more upgrades you equip to a ship the less booty you can carry from the ransacking Merchant ships.

Kraken - Wins by sinking ships from the Merchants and/or Pirates and returning to her lair without dying. Each ship she sinks increases her Terror Level which in turn makes her larger and stronger. When the terror level gets too high, the Pirates and Merchants will be too afraid to ever sail the seas again.

Ocean - Win by eliminating the Pirates entirely who have been terrorizing the peaceful Merchants and abusing the Ocean's Waters for ages. Or, alternate win condition is to make the waters impossible to navigate for the other players. The Ocean player shapes the sea and places obstacles:
Sharks: Attack the Kraken and force her into hiding.
Fog: Slows movement of ships and makes it harder for the Kraken to attack.
Storms: Capable of sinking ships + increases the Kraken's Terror Level.
Reefs: Forces players to navigate around them.
Winds: Maneuvers ships, not the Kraken.
Undercurrents: Maneuvers the Kraken, not ships.
Ghost Islands: Islands that may or may NOT be beneficial for Pirates and Merchants, they will have to make landfall and disembark to find out!
Tidal Waves: Damages Market Docks and Fences, making their payback to Merchants and Pirates less effective.

But seriously, with the name change to "Vast" the possibility for sequels is quite...well...Vast!

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Patrick Leder
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I wanted the pieces of each sequel to be relatively compatible with some modification (for instance the Manor doesn't have the tribe symbols so something would need to be done).

I have thought about pirates too or a simpler standalone game with less hidden information based around Alice in Wonderland that is a bit more appealing to a wider audience.

If someone wants to run a not compatible but similar proposal for a nautical one over my desk I will read it.
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Moose Detective
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dlienau wrote:

(Obligatory Sequel Speculation)
Vast: Seas of Plunder

Merchants

Pirates

Kraken

Ocean



You can be the Ocean? Sold! That's just as cool as being a Cave.

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Dave Lienau
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I've been thinking of a nautical theme game like this one for honestly a few years now. Original idea was supposed to be Merchants vs Pirates vs Kraken but Vast and the Cave role in Vast has
inspired me a bit further. I never thought that a player could be THE game board, you know?
And I love the way that you handled Vast TCC, the animation style and the overall asymmetric game play.

Unfortunately I simply don't have experience in board-game design.

If it behooves you, Patrick, I'd like to touch base at some point (perhaps other than an open forum) and throw some ideas around.
 
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Peter S.
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GreenM wrote:
All orders will be filled. This is not a pre-order its based on current inventory. I don't know why people keep calling it a pre-order.


It's funny, I'd actually been keeping tabs on the site waiting for it to go from pre-order to regular order, and put in my order as soon as I spotted the change. I know the site's said pre-order for so long, it's probably become habit for people to think of it that way.
 
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Pity I missed your KS as I was in Great Firewalled China when it was running.

I'll throw my money at you so fast the next time (assuming I'm not in China AGAIN).

Also, if you're interested in getting inspirations for some other versions of Vast, I propose-
Vast: The Suicide Forest
The Priestess; a young but gifted Shinto initiate is on a quest to exorcise a man possessed by a powerful Yokai (demon) whom had escaped into the notorious Aokigahara. She wins when The Possessed is defeated.

The Lost Souls; sorrowful spirits, of people who committed suicide in the forest, craving to drain as much spiritual energies from the living as possible, at least, enough to leave the forest. They win when The Priestess is defeated.

The Possessed; a troubled Ronin with a dark past who had made a pact with a Yokai in order to protect his love, only to ultimately lose himself to the demon and his fiancee as well. In order for the demon to ascend to its greater form, it must harvest as much sorrow and souls as possible. Which drew it to The Forest. It wins when all Lost Souls have been consumed.

The Forest; a living enclave of primordial sentient trees which will beguile and swallow all that dares tread into their domain. It wins when all souls, dead or living, are trapped or eliminated within their grounds.
 
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Mr Punter
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dlienau wrote:

(Obligatory Sequel Suggestion)
Vast: Seas of Plunder



Feel you're missing a trick here not calling it:

A Vast: Me Piratey Sequel

My obligatory forum post suggestion:

Vast: The Crystal Lands

Adventurer - you're on a quest to impress and get noticed within the land to win the adulation of your King/Queen and peers. You have a deck of different quests (kill something, find something etc) that you must complete a certain number of to win.

King/Queen - you oversee the land and win when your kingdom is happy! You can use the adventurer to kill minions, you can placate minions with goodies. You can invest in the land. Certain things or combo of things allow you to earn happiness for your land

Minions - you're there to do what minions do best, cause chaos. You can frustrate the others, slowing them down, more frustration is good for you. You win when someone flips the table...

The Treasure - wants to be found, but only by the right person. I just want the treasure in a game! Still trying to figure out the mechanics...
 
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