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Steven Woodcock
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From a few days ago; just found it in the Inbox:

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/americas-voting-machines-arent...
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Yes they are. It's almost like someone wants them to be. This has been raised and demonstrated over and over for many years.
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Chief Slovenly
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A Republican wants to bring up hackable voting machines.

HOORAY WE CAN FINALLY FIX THINGS

Because, well, I'm betting this transparency drive for voting machines, if followed to its logical conclusion, really won't have the result you think it will.

Unless it was a bit of conspiracy-mongering in the event of a double-digit loss in PA to deny legitimacy, in lieu of something actually constructive, in which case good luck with that.

 
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Donald
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How do the machines work?

It sounds like you'd need a hacker for each voting precinct, are there any big enough to cause a swing? Does each machine wirelessly upload the votes after each vote? Hourly?

EDIT: to answer my own question, if not very well

http://votingmachines.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID...

 
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Trey Chambers
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They have electronic machines that have a paper trail. That it isn't mandatory is criminal.
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David Dearlove
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Assuming the original software was honest. I suggest you look at who made them.
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Steven Woodcock
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bbenston wrote:
A Republican wants to bring up hackable voting machines.

HOORAY WE CAN FINALLY FIX THINGS

Because, well, I'm betting this transparency drive for voting machines, if followed to its logical conclusion, really won't have the result you think it will.

Unless it was a bit of conspiracy-mongering in the event of a double-digit loss in PA to deny legitimacy, in lieu of something actually constructive, in which case good luck with that.



So then you don't want hack-proof voting machines, or are you okay with them so long as they are generally hacked to favor whatever politics you have at the moment?

Your missive is a bit unclear.



Ferret
 
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Chris Binkowski
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I had to look up 'fractional voting' because I didn't know what it was. Came across this article, which points out that some machines are tallying votes as decimals (less or more than 1) per vote in a controlled manner:

http://blackboxvoting.org/fraction-magic-1/
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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There's been lots of material about this in security circles, for some years now. There's an academic called Rebecca Mercouri who was early on the subject. I tend to see it from postings by Bruce Schneier (well known security guru).

In addition to voting machines, which are bad, and hacks of which have been demonstrated - even if you trust the software, which in the world of crazy is considered a trade secret of the company that produces the machines, contrary to all good security practice. Worse yet is Internet voting. And even postal votes have broken the anti-intimidation secrecy that was a design feature of the in person secret ballot.

The only really good way is hand counted paper ballots. Of course there are precautions needed even there - counting in front of all the candidates is one step. It may take longer, but really is that an issue, especially in the USA where you don't actually need the result immediately.

You can still have some of the advantages of machines where ballots are complicated. Vote on a machine, machine prints ballot, voter inspects paper.

But for those who think it will never happen, it's worth considering malware like Stuxnet, Flame, Duqu etc. which shows there are players out there willing to spend millions (expert estimate of development costs). Stealing an election? Probably more. But the potential payoff is huge.

A real threat? I like to wishfully think no. But given that countermeasures aren't hard (and in the UK the best countermeasure is just not to change) they really should be being done. For those who say they will be less convenient, that's the nature of security. All security adds inconvenience. It's almost an axiom (it pretty much follows from that the aim is to really inconvenience bad guys, and nothing is perfect).

Edit: after posting that, the name Diebold floated up from my memories, I recall fuss over that their machines were hackable (they pretty much all are) and that their boss was a Republican supporter. I had forgotten, if I knew, that there was an HBO film ten years ago. But actually I think it doesn't need to be a partisan issue - everyone should be scared the other guys (who obviously are bad, they're the other guys) might do something, and hence better to stop them doing it.
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Chief Slovenly
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Ferretman wrote:
bbenston wrote:
A Republican wants to bring up hackable voting machines.

HOORAY WE CAN FINALLY FIX THINGS

Because, well, I'm betting this transparency drive for voting machines, if followed to its logical conclusion, really won't have the result you think it will.

Unless it was a bit of conspiracy-mongering in the event of a double-digit loss in PA to deny legitimacy, in lieu of something actually constructive, in which case good luck with that.



So then you don't want hack-proof voting machines, or are you okay with them so long as they are generally hacked to favor whatever politics you have at the moment?

Your missive is a bit unclear.



Ferret


If you want to fix it: have a paper trail be mandatory. If you insist on ID: provide it free of charge for anyone who wants it, and provide generous avenues for provisional voting and alternate forms of ID. It should be on the state to prove voter ineligibility.

WhIle we're at it, why not fix gerrymandering? Have all congressional districts drawn up by a nonpartisan commission, assisted by computer.

If you don't want to fix it, and instead want to piss and moan about impending Trump losses in swing states by double digits, go ahead. But at least don't claim to want to fix anything.
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Andy Holt
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Dearlove wrote:
… which shows there are players out there willing to spend millions (expert estimate of development costs). Stealing an election? Probably more. But the potential payoff is huge.


One may note that Arron Banks is understood to have spent £millions on the Brexit referendum in a manner in breach of the spirit - if not the letter - of the expenditure rules.
 
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