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Subject: Rude Tycoon - nevermind rss

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Bobby Warren
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I hear these guys just walked into a local store sat down and started distributing their game without even talking to the store. What a bunch of tools! I definitely will not be trying this game out.
 
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Todd Goff
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Re: Rude Tycoon
Bobby4th wrote:
I hear these guys just walked into a local store sat down and started distributing their game without even talking to the store. What a bunch of tools! I definitely will not be trying this game out.


Reference, please.
 
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Bobby Warren
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Re: Rude Tycoon
At my local game store. Turns out that wasn't the case. Some guys who got a big kick starter order arranged to meet people. They still didn't talk to the store until later.
 
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Todd Goff
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You should delete this post then.
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Sir Loin o Beef wrote:
You should delete this post then.


^This^

I mean really, this would BENEFIT the store more than anything! Having a bunch of people meet at a gaming store to pick up a game has more likelihood of bringing MORE business to the FLGS than taking business away from it.

Posting a thread with bad info? shake
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Randy D

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This is what I did at my location. It is part of the HUBS system of saving shipping cost to Kickstarter backers. All those who participate have their games sent to a designated HUB recipient in their location. Those folks then work out a time & place to meet to pick up their copy of the game they backed on Kickstarter. What better place to meet than in the game room of our Friendly Local Game Store during open game night. We did this and proceeded to play. It was a lot of fun and the owner was impressed by what he saw as well. Not sure how this is rude though, unless the folks you met were unkind to you, but that then is a reflection of those people you met and has nothing to do with this game.
 
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Bobby4th wrote:
At my local game store. Turns out that wasn't the case. Some guys who got a big kick starter order arranged to meet people. They still didn't talk to the store until later.


We love constructive feedback and criticism based on accurate information. Your comment was neither constructive, nor accurate.

Maybe you should get all the facts before you start blasting publishers/designers for things they didn't do.

And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise? I'm curious if the owner actually had an issue or it was just you. Actually your comment makes it sound like you weren't even there ("I hear...") and are hearing about this from someone else. Wow. Bad form.

I agree with others that recommend this post be deleted.

 
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vanrydergames wrote:
Bobby4th wrote:
At my local game store. Turns out that wasn't the case. Some guys who got a big kick starter order arranged to meet people. They still didn't talk to the store until later.


We love constructive feedback and criticism based on accurate information. Your comment was neither constructive, nor accurate.

Maybe you should get all the facts before you start blasting publishers/designers for things they didn't do.

And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise? I'm curious if the owner actually had an issue or it was just you. Actually your comment makes it sound like you weren't even there ("I hear...") and are hearing about this from someone else. Wow. Bad form.

I agree with others that recommend this post be deleted.


A. One of the owners mentioned it to me when I got there. I've known them for decades. They can't say anything about it when other people around because someone will jump online and post crap about them. Me, I would have just kicked their sorry asses out of the store for being rude, but that's why I am not in a customer service position.

B. I would have deleted it if someone hadn't responded. If I was to delete it now, all the comments would still be here and people would be asking "what's happened" or asking what it was referring to. Once there was a response, I didn't delete it but pointed out who the real culprit was.

C. If the owners thought it was the publisher, when I posted, then I'd say I had my facts right from the horses mouth. The problem is, the guys showed up at the store with a box full of games and were disappointed/upset that there wasn't more room for them. The store schedules all their tables most weekend days, so just showing up and assuming you will have space is more than a little presumptive. These guys are apparently not even regulars at the store because the owners didn't know them.

The store has always gone out of their way to help small local publishers, so it is especially irksome to see people I've known for decades being treated shabbily. Heck, one of the nicest, friendliest guys I know even complained about them and he interacted with them. I have no problem calling people out for lack of manners.

Your statement that, "And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise," when if it was a publisher there shows how self-centered and short-sighted you are. The store is there to sell games, not be a distribution point for someone's Kickstarted product which they received no compensation for. If the people that showed up to pick up the games weren't regulars of theirs (and I don't know if that was the case), then they weren't likely to be in the store in the first place. If they were customers of theirs, they likely would have been around anyway. They are one of a handful of full-sized board game stores in the huge metro area and have been around for thirty years. People in the area pretty much know about them.

So, thanks for commenting and keeping the thread alive.
 
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1. You can still delete the thread and just let die. The rest of us who commented don't haven't respond to the "what happened?"questions.

2 You can (I think) at the very least change the title of the thread. Clearly, neither the publisher of Saloon Tycoon nor the Game Designer was rude in any way. And I'm sure every FLGS in the nation has seen rude customers before.

3. Somebody brought customers INTO a store. That's not self-centeredness of the publisher, or designer. Again, if the people in the store acted self-centered, that doesn't mean it should be taken out on the publisher.

You're trying to dig yourself out of a huge hole, but it's only getting deeper. Simply apologize, change the title of the thread, and move on.




 
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Randy D

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What does any of this have to do with the Saloon Tycoon or its publisher?? The game is amazing. The publisher is a class act. You just happened to be easily offended by people who may or may not have been rude. Get over your indignation and play more games, especially Saloon Tycoon.
 
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Kindly tell me the name of the local game store that thinks people are rude when they visit them for what ever reason, so I can put that store on my "don't ever go there" list.

Just last year I met a person at my local game store to give them a game a had to distribute and was not even a regular. You know what, after I gave the game away I stay around to look at the games available and then bought something there at the store.

Edit: disregard my first comment, this thread's title was changed.
 
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Bobby Warren
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A class act? His response to this was the store should be happy people wanted to distribute his game, which they store did not sell, in the store. The store made no money off the sale of the games and was not consulted about being a distribution point by the backers who showed up and were put-out by not having more space on a Saturday. The store had several events going on -- a Magic tourney, some Warhammer 40K event, and something else at the back of the store's game area. In the store was the board game group, which schedules meetings with the owners and buys games from them, and a Netrunner league.

If they had approached the owners of the store, they likely would have been accommodated and promoted. Instead, they gave the small table to set up and play the game even though they didn't know these people. A class act is like the owners of the store who often have small companies come in and demo their new games, or even ones which are going to be on Kickstarter.

A class act is not an entitled individual who says this:

vanrydergames wrote:
And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise?

Really?

Oh, and thanks again for keeping the thread alive.
 
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Randy D

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Just because someone who happens to owns this game did something you didn't like you are therefore not trying out this game? Um, ok... then I guess you better not visit that game store again either because people who offended you happened to vist that store too. And you better hope these gamers don't happen to have an account with BoardGameGeek because if they do then I suppose you will be closing yours then. Your kindergarten playground attitude and feigned indignation is not fooling anyone. Dude, stop trolling and move on already.
 
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Bobby4th wrote:
A class act? His response to this was the store should be happy people wanted to distribute his game, which they store did not sell, in the store. The store made no money off the sale of the games and was not consulted about being a distribution point by the backers who showed up and were put-out by not having more space on a Saturday. The store had several events going on -- a Magic tourney, some Warhammer 40K event, and something else at the back of the store's game area. In the store was the board game group, which schedules meetings with the owners and buys games from them, and a Netrunner league.

If they had approached the owners of the store, they likely would have been accommodated and promoted. Instead, they gave the small table to set up and play the game even though they didn't know these people. A class act is like the owners of the store who often have small companies come in and demo their new games, or even ones which are going to be on Kickstarter.

A class act is not an entitled individual who says this:

vanrydergames wrote:
And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise?

Really?

Oh, and thanks again for keeping the thread alive.


I'm not here to defend A.J. out of some sense of loyalty or anything. But I do think it's necessary to point out the sequence of comments. Please bear with me...I'm not trying to be a jerk. I am just sharing my observations about why others seem irritated by this thread.

The first comment was:

Quote:
I hear these guys just walked into a local store sat down and started distributing their game without even talking to the store. What a bunch of tools! I definitely will not be trying this game out.


Based on this quote alone, I have no idea why you would be upset. There is no mention of these guys being rude, except that they didn't talk to the store owner first. For those of us who were not there and don't have any other information to work from, your comment that you refuse to try this game out because of this seems...excessive? Almost a non-sequitur.

But again, keep in mind that without more information, there's no context here.

The next comment was:

Quote:
At my local game store. Turns out that wasn't the case. Some guys who got a big kick starter order arranged to meet people. They still didn't talk to the store until later.


So for those of us who still don't have any information except what you've written, this still doesn't make sense. There's no mention of anyone being rude or offensive, except to the extent that they didn't talk to the owner first.

Without additional context, the fact that they didn't talk to the store owner first doesn't seem to be a big deal. Gamers routinely meet at game stores to hand off games that are purchased/sold/traded online, and in my experience, it's fairly common to do this without notifying the store owner what they are doing. Would it be polite if all gamers did this? Of course. Is it so rude when they don't that it warrants publicly calling out the company on a platform like BGG? Uhh... I can't speak for others, but for me, there would have to be something more to warrant the strong words of the first comment. But so far, we haven't heard anything, and the accusation (through the title of this thread) is still hanging.

That's when A.J. responded. And I have to be honest, I think his statement is fair, based on the extremely limited information you had provided up to that point. There was no indication that the guys who came into the store did anything wrong or bothered anyone except for "not talking to the store owner first." And as I said above, that by itself doesn't seem to justify the title of this thread or the insinuation that it reflects on A.J. or Saloon Tycoon.

Then there is the third comment:

Quote:
...Me, I would have just kicked their sorry asses out of the store for being rude, but that's why I am not in a customer service position.

B. I would have deleted it if someone hadn't responded. If I was to delete it now, all the comments would still be here and people would be asking "what's happened" or asking what it was referring to. Once there was a response, I didn't delete it but pointed out who the real culprit was.

C. If the owners thought it was the publisher, when I posted, then I'd say I had my facts right from the horses mouth. The problem is, the guys showed up at the store with a box full of games and were disappointed/upset that there wasn't more room for them. The store schedules all their tables most weekend days, so just showing up and assuming you will have space is more than a little presumptive. These guys are apparently not even regulars at the store because the owners didn't know them.

The store has always gone out of their way to help small local publishers, so it is especially irksome to see people I've known for decades being treated shabbily. Heck, one of the nicest, friendliest guys I know even complained about them and he interacted with them. I have no problem calling people out for lack of manners.

Your statement that, "And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise," when if it was a publisher there shows how self-centered and short-sighted you are. The store is there to sell games, not be a distribution point for someone's Kickstarted product which they received no compensation for. If the people that showed up to pick up the games weren't regulars of theirs (and I don't know if that was the case), then they weren't likely to be in the store in the first place. If they were customers of theirs, they likely would have been around anyway. They are one of a handful of full-sized board game stores in the huge metro area and have been around for thirty years. People in the area pretty much know about them.

So, thanks for commenting and keeping the thread alive.


Okay, so now, for the first time, we are given some additional context that these guys did something more than just show up and try to hand out games. Now, for the first time, it's revealed that they were "rude" and treated the owner "shabbily", acted "disappointed/upset", had a "lack of manners" and that they were the real "culprits."

Until this comment, none of this had come out. If some or all of this had been included at the beginning, then people might not have reacted quite as strongly. I am certain that it would have changed the course of this thread. There are still no specifics on exactly what these guys did that was rude, but at least there is some understanding that they did something more than just come into the store and hand games to other people.

Let's assume the guys were rude, and that what you were told was accurate. Since none of that information had been provided in the first two comments, A.J.'s response - at the point of this thread that he made it - appears justified based on the extremely limited information provided. There was literally no indication that they had done anything rude or offensive of any kind, and your comments (and the thread title) still insinuated something inappropriate about the publisher's behavior.

Your reaction to A.J. appears a bit unjustified - how should he (or anyone else) have known that there was more to the story than what you wrote in the first two comments? If you're response is "That's just it, he didn't know all the facts and just made assumptions" then you might want to stop and think about that.

It is unfair to make a public accusation but provide little information to support the accusation, and then blame others for making assumptions because they don't know all the facts. Either lay the case out completely in the first place, or don't make the accusation publicly.

If you are still upset, try turning the tables, and think about how you would feel if you were in A.J.'s shoes up to the point of the second comment. Think about the fact that someone has made a public accusation about his company, and that he has absolutely no information to work on except what is written in those first two comments. Would you be a little irritated? Would you respond in some way at that point? What do you think you would say, based solely on what had been written at that point?

No right or wrong here...just hoping to give some food for thought.

***Edit for clarification and grammar.
 
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Randy D

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I echo GLGames' analysis. But I guess what bothers me on top of all this is the complete non-sequitur. Suppose these folks were rude, how on earth does that have any bearing on the game or its publisher?
 
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randyd42 wrote:
I echo GLGames' analysis. But I guess what bothers me on top of all this is the complete non-sequitur. Suppose these folks were rude, how on earth does that have any bearing on the game or its publisher?

It didn't, until the Publisher essentially said the store should be grateful the people were there.
 
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Bobby4th wrote:
randyd42 wrote:
I echo GLGames' analysis. But I guess what bothers me on top of all this is the complete non-sequitur. Suppose these folks were rude, how on earth does that have any bearing on the game or its publisher?

It didn't, until the Publisher essentially said the store should be grateful the people were there.


I re-read A.J.'s comment, and I didn't get that sense at all.

Quote:
And even if it was true, what is the complaint? A bunch of gamers went to a game store they might not have been at otherwise?


Now, everyone is free to interpret this as they like, but consistent with my earlier response, I read A.J.'s comment to mean exactly what is written, and nothing more. He asked what the complaint was, because it wasn't clear from what you had written to that point. You hadn't provided any context as to why you (or the store owner) were upset about what happened, and had not yet explained that these guys had done anything inappropriate.

Again, I'd ask you to look at it from A.J.'s perspective at the time after your second comment. I just don't see that his response was inappropriate under the circumstances.
 
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Only one person on this thread sees AJ's response as being inappropriate...and that's Bobby Warren. Clearly, he simply won't stop trolling, and will only dig in his heels and believe that he hasn't done anything inappropriate by starting this thread and keeping it going.

Most gamers I know wouldn't slander somebody or their business, refuse to apologize even after 1/2 dozen people point out their mistake, and then continue to troll even when it's clear to all others they're in the wrong.

SOMEBODY playing SALOON TYCOON in a local gaming store somewhere was rude. Oh my...I'd better get on my keyboard and tell the world not to support the company who made this game. It's like telling people to not go to an excellent restaurant because they once ate there and there was a rude customer sitting near them.

Good grief...I expect this type of behavior elsewhere in life, but not a friendly gaming community.

Oh well, I'm checking out of this thread. If the troll wants to troll, let him. But I'm not biting anymore. He wants people to stop the thread from going forward, so perhaps it's just best to stop.

Then again, maybe he'll apologize and put an end to this nonsense. But I'm not expecting a miracle...
 
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WooHoo1 wrote:
Only one person on this thread sees AJ's response as being inappropriate...and that's Bobby Warren. Clearly, he simply won't stop trolling, and will only dig in his heels and believe that he hasn't done anything inappropriate by starting this thread and keeping it going.

Most gamers I know wouldn't slander somebody or their business, refuse to apologize even after 1/2 dozen people point out their mistake, and then continue to troll even when it's clear to all others they're in the wrong.

SOMEBODY playing SALOON TYCOON in a local gaming store somewhere was rude. Oh my...I'd better get on my keyboard and tell the world not to support the company who made this game. It's like telling people to not go to an excellent restaurant because they once ate there and there was a rude customer sitting near them.

Good grief...I expect this type of behavior elsewhere in life, but not a friendly gaming community.

Oh well, I'm checking out of this thread. If the troll wants to troll, let him. But I'm not biting anymore. He wants people to stop the thread from going forward, so perhaps it's just best to stop.

Then again, maybe he'll apologize and put an end to this nonsense. But I'm not expecting a miracle...


Well, full disclosure, I have had previous (online) interactions with both Bobby4th and A.J., and so felt a more personal reason to get involved.

I have dutifully refrained from using names or judgmental qualifiers here, because that never results in productive outcomes. If this thread can be helpful to others to see from another person's perspective, so much the better. If not...well, no harm done due to my involvement. The gaming community will survive and move on.
 
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Bobby4th wrote:
randyd42 wrote:
I echo GLGames' analysis. But I guess what bothers me on top of all this is the complete non-sequitur. Suppose these folks were rude, how on earth does that have any bearing on the game or its publisher?

It didn't, until the Publisher essentially said the store should be grateful the people were there.


Your very first post begs to differ. You basically said because these folks were rude you therefore will not play this game. What does their being rude have to do with this game to the point where you would publicly refer to the game as "Rude Tycoon" and state that you will not be trying it?

Also, since you were concerned for the store, I contacted Dave at the Game Depot directly and asked about this situation. He said they have areas in the store where the public may play games and they have no problems with gamers using their store as a meeting place to distribute Kickstarter games purchased through the HUBS system. He added that there are scheduled game events and so space might be limited, but he didn't have any problems with this. I asked him if he has had or heard of any issues recently with folks doing this and being rude and he said no. The meetup occurred Sat, Aug 13th at 11am, which also coincided with a scheduled Magic the Gathering and Warhammer events, so it sounds like space did get a little tight. But you can rest easy knowing that the store owner was not offended.
 
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WooHoo1 wrote:
Only one person on this thread sees AJ's response as being inappropriate...and that's Bobby Warren. Clearly, he simply won't stop trolling, and will only dig in his heels and believe that he hasn't done anything inappropriate by starting this thread and keeping it going.

What was inappropriate? The trolling is all the fanboys jumping in and keeping it alive. I was going to delete it but someone commented and I corrected it the best I could. Then the publisher said the game store should be grateful that gamers were in there distributing his kickstarted game.

It not that they were playing. It's that they arrived, arranged to distribute the game which was not sold by the store, and didn't contact the store to see if they had room or even would want people meeting to distribute a game they got no hand in selling. It's not like stores have scheduled events for working stiffs on Saturdays and space is at a premium... Stores also can't call anyone out these days because people jump online and whine and complain about anything.

WooHoo1 wrote:
Oh well, I'm checking out of this thread.

Talk about trolling. Jumping in, dropping a comment calling someone a name, then leaving...
 
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randyd42 wrote:
Your very first post begs to differ. You basically said because these folks were rude you therefore will not play this game. What does their being rude have to do with this game to the point where you would publicly refer to the game as "Rude Tycoon" and state that you will not be trying it?

I've stopped buying products from companies I find objectionable in the past. There are game companies I will not support. If it was the publisher in the first message, then I wouldn't be playing their game.

Now, I'm probably going to avoid playing their games because of the publisher's comment, not that any of the games were on my radar to begin with.
 
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randyd42 wrote:
The meetup occurred Sat, Aug 13th at 11am, which also coincided with a scheduled Magic the Gathering and Warhammer events, so it sounds like space did get a little tight. But you can rest easy knowing that the store owner was not offended.

All I can go by is what was said at the time. I know the people talked to them later in the day and that is when I went to delete the thread. It would have died, but people come in and keep commenting, calling me a troll, etc.

It's not like I haven't known Dave for 30+ years, helped him move when he bought the store, as well as couple of other times. Worked for him part time on a couple of occasions, and been regularly board gaming on Saturdays in the store since they moved to their current location over a decade ago. Oh, yeah...
 
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GreenLaborMike wrote:
Well, full disclosure, I have had previous (online) interactions with both Bobby4th and A.J., and so felt a more personal reason to get involved.

I have dutifully refrained from using names or judgmental qualifiers here, because that never results in productive outcomes. If this thread can be helpful to others to see from another person's perspective, so much the better. If not...well, no harm done due to my involvement. The gaming community will survive and move on.

The gaming community is imploding. Can't you see it? Panic in the streets!

I came back to look at your comment because I imagined you said AJ and I were reasonable. I know I am not when I get my ire up. Even when I don't, I can be an ass.

Personally, I would love for this to die, but I am going to keep replying to comments made about me.

Thanks to all that have kept the thread alive. It's interesting to see how people read into things instead of reading what is there. Of course, I'll probably have to buy Dave and Patty dinner, or cupcakes at least, since random people from out of state are contacting them about this...
 
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Bobby4th wrote:
Personally, I would love for this to die, but I am going to keep replying to comments made about me.

OK. You have replied, people can make up their own minds, and there are now no more comments made about you...
 
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