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Subject: Death Star Plans - Must be a better way to do this rss

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Mark Chiddicks
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I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?


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Eric Taylor
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KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?


It seems appropriate given how things worked out in A New Hope. If you've got the One in a Million card, it's a sure thing - Luke or Wedge guarantee a blowed up Death Star.
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Snipafist wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?


It seems appropriate given how things worked out in A New Hope. If you've got the One in a Million card, it's a sure thing - Luke or Wedge guarantee a blowed up Death Star.


Remember in EP4, the Y-wing missed their shot the first time. So it's very thematic that you might fail and have to try again.

Also, saying it's down to 1 roll only ignores all the preparation that the Rebel has to make before they even have a shot at the DS.
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Scott Lewis
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eunoia wrote:
Also, saying it's down to 1 roll only ignores all the preparation that the Rebel has to make before they even have a shot at the DS.

This exactly. If the rebels have enough fighters, they will get a shot in multiple rounds, and this increases their odds.

The chances of getting it in the first round is just under 50%. The chance of getting it in the first two rounds bumps up closer to 75%, and so on.

Obviously, it can still fail, but 75% is a pretty decent shot, if you can survive that first two rounds.
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sigmazero13 wrote:
eunoia wrote:
Also, saying it's down to 1 roll only ignores all the preparation that the Rebel has to make before they even have a shot at the DS.

This exactly. If the rebels have enough fighters, they will get a shot in multiple rounds, and this increases their odds.

The chances of getting it in the first round is just under 50%. The chance of getting it in the first two rounds bumps up closer to 75%, and so on.

Obviously, it can still fail, but 75% is a pretty decent shot, if you can survive that first two rounds.

^ That. The point is to make sure you can survive with your fighters for more than one rounds of the battle. Remember that you can use this card at the and of each round of battle that your fighters and a Death Star are in system. If you manage to remove DS escort (and make sure that Imperial can not retreat) it will be much easier, as it's not easy to kill your fighters with only red dices.
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Battles involving Death Star states in rules: Empire can not retreat.
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Mark Chiddicks
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Yeah, but getting that card is also pure luck - there should be some form of clever play that achieves the same thing
 
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KinginAmber wrote:
Yeah, but getting that card is also pure luck - there should be some form of clever play that achieves the same thing


There's not that much luck involved in drawing it. You know roughly where it is in the deck since the objectives are stratified by stage. And you can use the Infiltration mission to have more control over when you draw it.
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Yan P.
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Sassycat wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
Yeah, but getting that card is also pure luck - there should be some form of clever play that achieves the same thing


There's not that much luck involved in drawing it. You know roughly where it is in the deck since the objectives are stratified by stage. And you can use the Infiltration mission to have more control over when you draw it.


In fact - since you should be playing infiltration every turn, you can expect the death star plans by turn 6 at the absolute latest.
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Scott Lewis
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KinginAmber wrote:
Yeah, but getting that card is also pure luck - there should be some form of clever play that achieves the same thing

Not if the Rebel player is playing wisely to find it. As mentioned above, using Infiltration and other objective-cycling missions is an important part of Rebel strategy to get the objective deck stacked with objectives you want to pursue, rather than just randomly waiting to see what happens.
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Jason Sherlock
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A Death Star is something to be feared, and not easily destroyed. It takes some work to get the means of taking it out.
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Clinton Rice
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Totally agree. Last game I played in, I not only got the DS plans but lost them to Vader and got them back again. It's not difficult.
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Michael Ptak
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It's also not really practical as a super offensive weapon. I don't think in any of my games as the empire I had the need to fire the superlaser. I mostly use the DS as a very large, unhittable Star Destroyer and ferry around a swarm of TIEs with a couple of ground units.
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Phil Campeau
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The Death Star isn't a Tie fighter. Destroying it shouldn't generally be a sure bet, that would be completely unthematic.
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Brett Miller
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I am increasingly convinced of the importance of getting lots of objective cards and stacking the deck early on to put the crappy first tier objectives at the bottom and get to the good stuff sooner.

Destroying the death star is similar to using the death star. It looks like luck at first but then you realize how much you can augment your luck.

Or, as Obi-Wan said:"In my experience, Captain Solo, there's no such thing as mere luck."

In some games, if the empire has put the death star in a stupid place, I will actually put DS plans at the bottom of the deck - there is definitely a decision to be made here, don't pin all your hopes and dreams on destroying the DS.

This is one of the many yin-yangs of this game. The difficulty of destroying the DS matches the DS itself, which is really only useful for one thing - making a ground battle on a rebel base irrelevant by blowing the whole planet up.

If the rebels don't fortify the base and instead opt for a different strategy, the DS has very little practical purpose.

Just like DS plans, it's not the linchpin piece to the empire victory, but when it happens, it's pretty freakin' sweet!

P.S. On a side note I was thinking of house ruling it so when the empire blows up a planet the rebels lose a reputation. It gives the imperial player something else productive to do with the super lasers on line card but since there are relatively few it also represents a potentially tough decision, that could possibly extend the game to another turn.

I know the game can feel pretty tough for the rebels to win but I often find at the end of the game the empire will realize - oh wait, I can't possibly win because the base is two turns away! But then again, that's probably because the rebels played well.

It also gives the rebels another reason to destroy the DS

What do people think? Will this totally unbalance the game?


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Scott Lewis
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I don't know if it would BREAK the game, but it would make the "Inspire Sympathy" card a bit less useful. Instead of being a boon for the Rebellion if the Empire overdoes its power, all it does is catches them back up to where they would have been.

IE, it would essentially turn Inspire Sympathy from a card that gives reputation to the Rebellion to just restoring that reputation.
 
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Brett Miller
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I don't know if it would BREAK the game, but it would make the "Inspire Sympathy" card a bit less useful. Instead of being a boon for the Rebellion if the Empire overdoes its power, all it does is catches them back up to where they would have been.

IE, it would essentially turn Inspire Sympathy from a card that gives reputation to the Rebellion to just restoring that reputation.


That's a good point, which I didn't consider becuase I have never seen that card get played partially becuase the empire so seldom has a reason to blow-up planets.

If anything remembering that objective just makes me less likely to use the deathstar... I mean, why blow up a planet when you can subjugate it? Am I missing something, under the regular rules is there any other reason to blow up a planet?

 
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galaxybear wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I don't know if it would BREAK the game, but it would make the "Inspire Sympathy" card a bit less useful. Instead of being a boon for the Rebellion if the Empire overdoes its power, all it does is catches them back up to where they would have been.

IE, it would essentially turn Inspire Sympathy from a card that gives reputation to the Rebellion to just restoring that reputation.


That's a good point, which I didn't consider becuase I have never seen that card get played partially becuase the empire so seldom has a reason to blow-up planets.

If anything remembering that objective just makes me less likely to use the deathstar... I mean, why blow up a planet when you can subjugate it? Am I missing something, under the regular rules is there any other reason to blow up a planet?



You can save yourself a ground battle or two by blowing up the Rebel base.
 
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galaxybear wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I don't know if it would BREAK the game, but it would make the "Inspire Sympathy" card a bit less useful. Instead of being a boon for the Rebellion if the Empire overdoes its power, all it does is catches them back up to where they would have been.

IE, it would essentially turn Inspire Sympathy from a card that gives reputation to the Rebellion to just restoring that reputation.


That's a good point, which I didn't consider becuase I have never seen that card get played partially becuase the empire so seldom has a reason to blow-up planets.

If anything remembering that objective just makes me less likely to use the deathstar... I mean, why blow up a planet when you can subjugate it? Am I missing something, under the regular rules is there any other reason to blow up a planet?


You need a really good reason But that's actually somewhat thematic - while Tarkin did destroy Alderaan, it did end up being a rally point for the Rebellion. And Tarkin's "doctrine" wasn't so much "rule by force", but rather "rule by the fear of force."

IE, the idea was not really to use it, but to scare people because he COULD use it.
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Ben Master
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KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?




I think you should roll dice equal to your surviving fighters. So no three dice reward for a weak desperation play. It nerfs rebels a bit but the 40% shot is just so lame. People should have to work for better odds if that's their strategy.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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eumaies wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?




I think you should roll dice equal to your surviving fighters. So no three dice reward for a weak desperation play. It nerfs rebels a bit but the 40% shot is just so lame. People should have to work for better odds if that's their strategy.


No, a single fighter was enough. You work for better odds by sending in more fighters to give you more chances before they all get blown up.
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Ben Master
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demoss1 wrote:
eumaies wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?




I think you should roll dice equal to your surviving fighters. So no three dice reward for a weak desperation play. It nerfs rebels a bit but the 40% shot is just so lame. People should have to work for better odds if that's their strategy.


No, a single fighter was enough. You work for better odds by sending in more fighters to give you more chances before they all get blown up.


Right, i'm suggesting a rule change to improve the game.
 
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eunoia wrote:
galaxybear wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I don't know if it would BREAK the game, but it would make the "Inspire Sympathy" card a bit less useful. Instead of being a boon for the Rebellion if the Empire overdoes its power, all it does is catches them back up to where they would have been.

IE, it would essentially turn Inspire Sympathy from a card that gives reputation to the Rebellion to just restoring that reputation.


That's a good point, which I didn't consider becuase I have never seen that card get played partially becuase the empire so seldom has a reason to blow-up planets.

If anything remembering that objective just makes me less likely to use the deathstar... I mean, why blow up a planet when you can subjugate it? Am I missing something, under the regular rules is there any other reason to blow up a planet?



You can save yourself a ground battle or two by blowing up the Rebel base.


Actually I think people are forgetting an important factor: using the Superlaser Online changes loyalty (in favor of the Empire) of two other systems in the region.
That means that two neutral systems can become loyal to the Empire.
And Loyalty exposes the hidden Rebel base.
So it's a quick way to take 3 planets off your list: the one you blow up, and the two that become loyal.
 
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CannonWolf wrote:
Actually I think people are forgetting an important factor: using the Superlaser Online changes loyalty (in favor of the Empire) of two other systems in the region.

One loyalty in one system, not two loyalty in two systems:

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eumaies wrote:
demoss1 wrote:
eumaies wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
I find the weakest part of the game the mechanism for destroying the Death Star - roll 3 dice and trust to luck - either total success or total failure (OK you MIGHT get a second go, but its not that likely).

This single roll can win or lose the game, far too easily

Can anyone think of better, more satisfying way to do this?




I think you should roll dice equal to your surviving fighters. So no three dice reward for a weak desperation play. It nerfs rebels a bit but the 40% shot is just so lame. People should have to work for better odds if that's their strategy.


No, a single fighter was enough. You work for better odds by sending in more fighters to give you more chances before they all get blown up.


Right, i'm suggesting a rule change to improve the game.


No, you're just suggesting a rule change.
 
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