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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: I need help building my mom better squadrons. :( rss

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So me and my mom got into this game less than a year ago. We've love it ever since.
My mom suffered some brain damage several years back...and this game has just been amazing for her. It's help with her ability to concentrate for long periods, it's helped her to remember things (she's done a great job with this!!), and she's surprisingly good at maneuvering. Better than I am in fact. She really takes her time with each ship and it's freaking awesome to see her pilot her ship around asteroids and other ships...cause she's just so good at it.

However...she simply doesn't want to build her own squads. It's too overwhelming to her especially with all of the upgrade cards.
She also gets frustrated when I try to give her too many ships to fly.

...long story short, we haven't been able to get a game in in the last 2 months...but during that time I bought myself a yt-2400 I've been really anxious to try out.
And even though my mom doesn't like having too many ships...I thought I'd see how she'd do with a 6 tie swarm last night. Only 1 ship had upgrades, and I thought it'd be pretty straight forward.
I was just flying a decked out poe/t-70 and my 2400.

She almost started crying and said she felt like she had no chance and mine as well give up now...as we were setting up the asteroids. I told her about how my big ship ignored obstacles during the movement phase, and she saw all the asteroid on her side of the field, and she was already a bit overwhelmed with the 6 ships I gave her...now she had to worry about moving them around a ton of asteroids?


It really saddened me...so we switched out the asteroids on her side of the field with debris, which is MUCH more easily handled.

...But then I just crushed her. And I didn't really mean to. I got off some SUPER lucky rolls (rolling 3 hits and a crit one round, 2 hits and 2 crits the next...). I killed off 4 of her ties with ease and it just felt so 1 sided.
She did make a stand and nearly knocked out my yt-2400 (got it down to a single hull!)...but I still had a fully decked out poe flying around with full shields (thanks to r2-d2).

And I feel like crap. Cause I'm the one who build her squad...

I'm not great at making squads. I also refuse to use proxy upgrades...so there's a lot of builds I just don't have access to yet (I plan on eventually having every ship/upgrade in this game at some point).

I don't know what to do. I SO wish my mom could build her own teams. But she can't. I wish I was smarter and could figure out how to make 2 balanced teams...but I just don't usually know how strong my teams are going to be till I've played them a couple of times.

I do think I'm going to try and explain how each ship and upgrade card has a certain point value, and they can't add up to more than 100 points. Then I'll start letting her pick out her own ships she wants to fly, and I'll try to pick out upgrades that work well with them.

I'm also interested in printing out the aturi cluster (spelling?) campaign and playing some co-op games with her. Maybe that'll take some of the pressure off of her.

Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Me and my mom love this game...we've both got tons of ships and are excited to continue to get more and more as we go...it's just I'm having a dang hard time keeping things balanced for us and I'm getting really frustrated (as is my mom).

Sorry for the encyclopedia length post.
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Angelus Seniores
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maybe, the best way is to design several 100-points squadrons, perhaps taken from the top tournament finals that you can find online, then you each draw a squadron at random to play against each other.

this way, neither of you know what squadron you will play and against what and top lists tend to be interesting to play anyway, putting neither of you at an advantage.

a good trick with swarms is to place the ships enough apart (about the width of a thumb in each direction) so that whatever maneuver you take, they each can always take the same one without bumping.

playing without asteroids seems a good way to go

perhaps also use random starting locations for the squadrons which can make things interesting and avoid big advantages.

or stick to the scenarios that come with the game.
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Angelsenior wrote:
maybe, the best way is to desgin several 100-points squadrons, perhaps taken from the top tournament finals that you can find online, then you each draw a squadron at random to play against each other.

this way, neither of you know what squadron you will play and against what and top lists tend to be interesting to play anyway, putting neither of you at an advantage.


What a great idea! Thanks a lot for this!!
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Oblivion Doll
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Honestly, when introducing a new build/ship like the YT-2400, I think it would have been a better idea to let her fly a squadron she's a bit more comfortable with rather than taking her out of her comfort zone in two ways at once.

Putting both the pressure of facing an unfamiliar opponent AND flying a very different kind of list from her usual at the same time was probably a bit much for her. A 6-TIE swarm list can actually be a really powerful build, when done right, and should be an even match against your build. BUT it's got to be flown right, and with someone unfamiliar with the builds on either side of the board, that's not likely to happen.

Maybe next time you play, bring a list without the YT-2400, so you have to be careful about the terrain as well, and give her a better chance to practise and learn how to fly a basic swarm. Watch some strategy videos (maybe watch them with her) and where possible, give her pointers - or reminders if you watched the video together - and help her get used to flying a swarm.

I totally understand how a swarm can feel overwhelming at first - the trick is to NOT treat each ship as an individual, but as part of a coherent whole. It can take some time, but it makes things feel a lot less intense than trying to manage 6 different ships at once.
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I appreciate this reply.
And you're absolutely right...I really shouldn't have overwhelmed my mom like I did with giving her a swarm she wasn't experienced at all with flying (I really am proud of her at how well she was flying the ships though!). In my defense, I was kinda sorta hoping that it'd be a bit fun for her...I really didn't think it over enough and realize how overwhelming it was going to end up being for her. I certainly didn't mean to bring her nearly to teals! lol I felt so bad >.<'

She really enjoyed the first few scenarios that came with some of the ships...I think our next few games will be these again...bring things back down to simpler games. Let her build back up to where we were 2 months ago (where we played at least one game each week).

haha I think I just came here to vent .
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thespaceinvader -
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Don't run Dash if you don't wanna be a jerk.

Especially don't run Dash against a lower-PS swarm you can pick apart mostly at your leisure.
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David Boeren
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Maybe try building both squadrons and let her pick which side she wants to use? Then you know she's getting something she feels at least somewhat comfortable flying.

To a very casual player, seeing six ships when they expect 2-3 will immediately make them think something cheesy is going on. If the six ships are on YOUR side, then they're obviously an attempt to make an overpowered squad. If the six ships are on THEIR side, you're obviously trying to stick them with a bunch of crappy guys that can't do anything. But just by being that far out of the ordinary they "know" something is up.

Since she seems to like builds with big ships, I'd stick with 2-3 ships on her side. Let her have the Falcon and 1-2 wingmen or something like that. If a particular game seems to have gone well:

1. Keep track of her list in case she wants to use the same or similar one again

2. This is a good time to ask questions about what she might like to try next time. Did you like using <pilot x>? Would you like to try two more basic escorts for your Falcon instead of one elite one? Are you interested in trying the YT-2400 instead of the YT-1300 sometime? Asking these things while she's in a good mood will work better I think.


It's awesome that you've found something you can do with her that you both can enjoy and helps her keep sharp after her brain damage. Just let her go at her own pace, it's not worth the risk of spoiling the good situation you've currently got going.
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thespaceinvader wrote:
Don't run Dash if you don't wanna be a jerk.

Especially don't run Dash against a lower-PS swarm you can pick apart mostly at your leisure.


In my defense, I didn't give her the swarm thinking it was going to be a lot weaker than my squad. I don't do that. There's been plenty of games where it's been the exact opposite...where I give her a squad that turns out to completely smoke me. I have a VERY hard time judging how strong or weak squads and individual ships are going to end up...until I've played them (or against them) a couple of times.
In retrospect I didn't put nearly enough thought into what I was doing to be quite honest.
I also didn't know the yt-2400 was going to be such an awesome ship my first time playing it to be honest.
I was hoping she'd be able to keep a bunch of her ships within range one of me so I wouldn't be able to shoot at her (I was using heavy laser canon).

That I think was my main reason for wanting to give her a bunch of ships this go around. I've been super excited to give my 2400 a try, but thought if I gave her just a 2 or 3 ship squad, that the 2400 would have a much easier time staying at range 2 or 3 most the time...but that if she had tons of guys swarming in on me, all taking shots at me...hopefully she'd take me down real quick and I was going to have a hard time with things.

/sigh

I have much to learn!
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dboeren wrote:
Maybe try building both squadrons and let her pick which side she wants to use?

hehe she's a die hard darkside fan. She's putting together a spare bedroom just now with all of her vader (and now kylo) 'stuff' she owns. Toys and collectables and jewelry...etc etc.
I've offered to let her try out some of the ships from the finer side ()...but she wont have any of it!


Quote:
To a very casual player, seeing six ships when they expect 2-3 will immediately make them think something cheesy is going on. If the six ships are on YOUR side, then they're obviously an attempt to make an overpowered squad. If the six ships are on THEIR side, you're obviously trying to stick them with a bunch of crappy guys that can't do anything. But just by being that far out of the ordinary they "know" something is up.

I really didn't mean to make it this way lol I feel like such a jerk looking back on it...but honestly, I didn't start out with the intentions to be a jerk face haha
Quote:
Since she seems to like builds with big ships, I'd stick with 2-3 ships on her side. Let her have the Falcon and 1-2 wingmen or something like that. If a particular game seems to have gone well:

1. Keep track of her list in case she wants to use the same or similar one again

2. This is a good time to ask questions about what she might like to try next time. Did you like using <pilot x>? Would you like to try two more basic escorts for your Falcon instead of one elite one? Are you interested in trying the YT-2400 instead of the YT-1300 sometime? Asking these things while she's in a good mood will work better I think.

Well...she sure does love her vader!
She's also got all the small ships but the tie bomber. Vader has definitely been her favorite so far...she had a very difficult time with the phantom, as cloaking didn't make much sense to her, and I had her hyped about about the defender (one of my personal favorite small ships in the game)...but it died immediately the first game she got to play it and has been turned off to it sense.
She also has a decimator, but she can't get over the fact that she doesn't get to roll defense dice with it...even when it wins her a game and beats the snot out of me...she still doesn't like it because of the 0 green dice.

That's why I'm hoping I can let her pick out the ships she wants to play...and I'll try to pick out pilots and upgrades that will work well with them.

But I have saved all of her lists she's flown and even have notes I take during games on each list.
Quote:
It's awesome that you've found something you can do with her that you both can enjoy and helps her keep sharp after her brain damage. Just let her go at her own pace, it's not worth the risk of spoiling the good situation you've currently got going.


Thanks for the great reply!
 
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Oblivion Doll
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dboeren wrote:
It's awesome that you've found something you can do with her that you both can enjoy and helps her keep sharp after her brain damage. Just let her go at her own pace, it's not worth the risk of spoiling the good situation you've currently got going.


I really agree with this, and think it's amazing to see people finding such cool ways to help other people using something as simple as a game.
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David Boeren
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twitch77 wrote:
Well...she sure does love her Vader!

She's also got all the small ships but the tie bomber. Vader has definitely been her favorite so far...she had a very difficult time with the phantom, as cloaking didn't make much sense to her, and I had her hyped about about the defender (one of my personal favorite small ships in the game)...but it died immediately the first game she got to play it and has been turned off to it sense.

That's why I'm hoping I can let her pick out the ships she wants to play...and I'll try to pick out pilots and upgrades that will work well with them.

But I have saved all of her lists she's flown and even have notes I take during games on each list.


Next time she's ready to try a TIE Defender, use the TIE/x7 title (which makes it more durable) and maybe Juke for an EPT. Simple combination that works well. Ryad and Vessery are both solid pilots, so is just using a simple Glaive.

However, if you don't have a TIE Bomber I assume that means no Imperial Veterans? Unfortunately the TIE Defender isn't that good without using one of the titles but you could proxy if you want.

The best thing you can do for Vader is pick up a TIE/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer card for him. These usually go on eBay for around $14 shipped for the set (about the cost of one small based ship). He's a very strong ship with these and maybe an Engine Upgrade. You can put an EPT on him if you want too but it's optional.

Some other good and not too complicated ships might include:
The Inquisitor w/ TIE/v1 and probably Autothrusters (long range sniper)
Omega Leader w/ Juke & Comm Relay (unusually durable)
Zeta Leader w/ Wired & Comm Relay (fun with stress)
Carnor Jax (bubble of protection for all your ships)

Note that Vader, Inquisitor, and Omega Leader are all good buddies for Vessery in the TIE Defender too.

If you end up getting Imperial Veterans, Tomax Bren with Crackshot and whatever missiles/torpedoes you want to use is pretty fun.

I think that letting her pick three ships and then you fill them up with pilots and upgrades sounds like a great idea.
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Storgar The Viking
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I agree heavily with David's comments above.

Also make notes on what ships she has enjoyed flying, if she does not like using lots of ships just stick to 3 in a squad for her.

This may be hard but focus on getting ships / expansions she will need for a while to make the most out of what she likes.

Also heroes of the aturi cluster is great, I highly recommend, this will be a very enjoyable experience for her and provides real team work for the 2 of you so you will get that working together against a common foe feeling.
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thespaceinvader -
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twitch77 wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:
Don't run Dash if you don't wanna be a jerk.

Especially don't run Dash against a lower-PS swarm you can pick apart mostly at your leisure.


In my defense, I didn't give her the swarm thinking it was going to be a lot weaker than my squad. I don't do that. There's been plenty of games where it's been the exact opposite...where I give her a squad that turns out to completely smoke me. I have a VERY hard time judging how strong or weak squads and individual ships are going to end up...until I've played them (or against them) a couple of times.
In retrospect I didn't put nearly enough thought into what I was doing to be quite honest.
I also didn't know the yt-2400 was going to be such an awesome ship my first time playing it to be honest.
I was hoping she'd be able to keep a bunch of her ships within range one of me so I wouldn't be able to shoot at her (I was using heavy laser canon).

That I think was my main reason for wanting to give her a bunch of ships this go around. I've been super excited to give my 2400 a try, but thought if I gave her just a 2 or 3 ship squad, that the 2400 would have a much easier time staying at range 2 or 3 most the time...but that if she had tons of guys swarming in on me, all taking shots at me...hopefully she'd take me down real quick and I was going to have a hard time with things.

/sigh

I have much to learn!


Here's your lesson from this then: Dash is the quintessential kiting arc dodger. He flies around the edges of the engagement dodging as many shots as possible, and getting fully modified four dice shots when he's not dodging. Swarms can beat him, but it takes a LOT of luck, skillful blocking, and an awful lot of brain space. And even if you do succeed, it's incredibly frustrating fighting him, because he has about a 1/4 chance of popping a focussed TIE fighter in a single hit, and the more he pops, the less possible it becomes to trap him.

It's much, much easier to beat him with three ships of higher PS than his than with 6 of lower PS.

But I still probably wouldn't play a traditional super dash in this context, because even with higher pilot skill, he's frustrating and VERY hard to predict, and hits like a frigging truck.
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Jim Chadwick
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If you are looking for help specifically to help beat Dash...then there have been three different ways to defeat Dash. Well, you can mix them, as well.

The first would be something like the Tie Interceptor that has Boost and Barrel Roll. The Tie Interceptor is the best, because it has 3 red attack dice. When someone is playing Dash, they usually take the Heavy Laser Cannon....with it's range 2-3 only attacks. So, there is a spot that's often called the "donut hole". If you can get into R1 of Dash, then you get an extra attack die and they don't get any. Also, something with Boost will give you Auto Thrusters, which are very important to survive attacks from an HLC. While Interceptors are the best, there is also Tie Adv. V1's.

The next option would be ordnance carriers. A large ship can get blasted down pretty hard with some missiles. Homing Missile is the best, but others are not bad, especially with Guidance Chips. You need to have them in arc, but if you can proxy Long Range Scanners, you shouldn't have a problem with getting a Target Lock on an enemy ship. Tie Bombers are the best with this, but you can go with a few other ships. Both Tie Advanced X1's and V1's both have missiles. Vader with a missile can really wreck things, especially if it's a Homing Missile and he's able to get a Focus, as well.

The last historic option to dealing with Dash would be with a blocker or two. Get a cheap Academy Pilot that you use to get in Dash's way. You KNOW Dash is going for that 2 hard turn and then a Boost out of arc. So...stick that Tie Fighter right where that 2 hard turn is going to put him. I've crushed both YT's with blockers. It might take some practice, but just having someone out there to get in his way can greatly help you out.

With the new titles for the Tie Defenders, you can use them now. Either option is good, really. The /X7 will help you get defensive against Dash and also help you close the distance to get into the Donut Hole. The /D title will give you firepower to blast through on Dash...if you can keep him in firing arc.
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