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Hard to fucking believe that in modern times, a person with direct ties to the Russian government (via ex-Ukrainian, Pro-Russia administration), who pocketed millions for his work for said government is actually leading the campaign of a US presidential candidate.

I'm all for the ideal of non-corruption in my government officials (fantasy), but at the very least I would prefer my politicians bribed by US interests rather than foreign governments.

How did this fucking happen?
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J
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Trump's daughter, who is very active in his campaign, is also best friends with Putin's girlfriend.
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Josh
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So which one do you think is Rearden and which one Galt when they hang out together?
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This reminds me of Pre-WW1 incestuous, cross-pollinated blood lines among the leaders of the Empires. Trump is trying to go old-school rule.

 
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J.D. Hall
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Manafort is a mercenary, like almost all political operatives. You pay him for his services and he provides them when you pay him. Simple as that. Meh.
 
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Mike Stiles
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I know you guys love to conflate bad optics with actual influence (roll with what you've got, makes sense), but this is a case where we have an absolutely explicit connection and very weirdly biased positioning from the campaign.
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bjlillo wrote:
windsagio wrote:
I know you guys love to conflate bad optics with actual influence (roll with what you've got, makes sense), but this is a case where we have an absolutely explicit connection and very weirdly biased positioning from the campaign.


I can't believe a Hillary supporter typed this with a straight face.


You have to consider how deep I'm in, BJ. My default position for hearing a new accusation against her is "This is bullshit like the last 50 accusations".
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What legitimately boggles me though is that people can't react to what seems to be a fairly severe issue in the Trump campaign without trying to justify it, or at least show the other side is just as bad.
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Wendell
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windsagio wrote:
I know you guys love to conflate bad optics with actual influence (roll with what you've got, makes sense), but this is a case where we have an absolutely explicit connection and very weirdly biased positioning from the campaign.


For example, the only thing the Trump campaign cared to change in the foreign policy part of the 2016 Republican platform was the bit supporting Ukraine against Russia.
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Me nah play no 'ide and seek
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windsagio wrote:
What legitimately boggles me though is that people can't react to what seems to be a fairly severe issue in the Trump campaign without trying to justify it, or at least show the other side is just as bad.


Seriously, we can't even get a good "Trump is such a buffoon" circle-jerk going here without these Never-Trumpers running in shoving photos of Grandma Hillary in our faces.

Just let us have this one, okay? Drew's protestations aside, we're really not responsible for "your" party nominating this fucking joke.
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Mac Mcleod
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jmilum wrote:
Trump's daughter, who is very active in his campaign, is also best friends with Putin's girlfriend.


wow... true!


http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/08/15/trumps-daughter-putins...

Quote:
Surprise, surprise! Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka and the ex-wife of Fox News owner Rupert Murdoch and current girlfriend of Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, Wendi Deng Murdoch, are best buddies who just went on a lavish vacation together. Might that explain Fox News’s unbelievably slanted favorability towards Trump’s despicable brand of politics? Could you imagine the outrage by Republicans if one of President Obama’s daughters were hanging around with Putin’s girlfriend? Fox News would found an entirely new channel for the sole purpose of harping on the subject around the clock. However, as is true to form, because the subject is Trump’s daughter they remain quiet as church mice. Similarly, Trump’s vow that he does not know or speak to Putin is now obviously proved untrue. Unless his supporters believe Putin and Trump have never spoken, and it is a mere coincidence that Trump’s daughter and Putin’s girlfriend just happen to know each other. Right — like the two met coincidentally at the supermarket while buying supplies to cook for the homeless. One really can’t make this stuff up.

Ivanka Trump and Wendi Murdoch were spotted palling it up on the coast of Dubrovnik, Croatia.


As he says... one really can't make this stuff up!
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bjlillo wrote:
windsagio wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
windsagio wrote:
I know you guys love to conflate bad optics with actual influence (roll with what you've got, makes sense), but this is a case where we have an absolutely explicit connection and very weirdly biased positioning from the campaign.


I can't believe a Hillary supporter typed this with a straight face.


You have to consider how deep I'm in, BJ. My default position for hearing a new accusation against her is "This is bullshit like the last 50 accusations".


Nothing like a little serial law-breaking, attacking the sexual assault victims of her husband, and pathological lying to train you for ignoring reality. Bravo, good soldier.


I figure you'd be more about the fact that she's a vampire. That's the crazy bit.
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Lynette
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windsagio wrote:
What legitimately boggles me though is that people can't react to what seems to be a fairly severe issue in the Trump campaign without trying to justify it, or at least show the other side is just as bad.


This is because the other side is really awful!

Look I will grant you it isn't *as bad* at Trump. But seriously if the democrats were running an honest to God braying fuzzy nosed long eared donkey living in a barnyard, it wouldn't be *as bad* as Trump!
So that *as bad* is a bar set so low Hillary would have to hire excavation equipment to manage to tunnel under it is hardly the same as acceptable. That she is so poor a choice that if the bar was only low enough a shovel would do the trick of tunneling under it, she would do it handily is hardly something for any of us to be thrilled about.

She will be our next President but that is something NONE of us should be happy about. That there is literally NO option other than horrible this cycle is something we should ALL be upset about. Upset enough to try to make sure it doesn't ever happen again.
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Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
wow... true!
Quote:
Ivanka Trump and Wendi Murdoch were spotted palling it up on the coast of Dubrovnik, Croatia.


As he says... one really can't make this stuff up!


My favorite part of this election year is seeing the Democrats in full "red scare" mode.


Apparently (among all the other things) you don't know what 'red' means.
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Mac Mcleod
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Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
wow... true!
Quote:
Ivanka Trump and Wendi Murdoch were spotted palling it up on the coast of Dubrovnik, Croatia.


As he says... one really can't make this stuff up!


My favorite part of this election year is seeing the Democrats in full "red scare" mode.


It is not my favorite part of this election year that over half of republican voters don't care if the president might have a one sided bromance and ongoing financial dependence going with putin.
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Chad Ellis
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jmilum wrote:
Trump's daughter, who is very active in his campaign, is also best friends with Putin's girlfriend.


Putin is dating Chelsea Clinton?????
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Chad Ellis
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wifwendell wrote:
windsagio wrote:
I know you guys love to conflate bad optics with actual influence (roll with what you've got, makes sense), but this is a case where we have an absolutely explicit connection and very weirdly biased positioning from the campaign.


For example, the only thing the Trump campaign cared to change in the foreign policy part of the 2016 Republican platform was the bit supporting Ukraine against Russia.


Nuh uh. Trump said they didn't do it. Never mind that later they said that they did do it and the folks working on the platform said both that the campaign asked for it and that it was the only change they asked for. Trump said they didn't do it, so they didn't. Stop violating the first amendment.
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Trey Chambers
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Any one of these Russian connections I would laugh off as a conspiracy theory. But they just keep piling up.

-The DNC hacks with Russian connections.
-Ivanka's friendship with Putin's girlfriend.
-Trump's praise for Putin.
-Manafort's connections.

Those are four bit of circumstantial evidence. Any one by itself would be easily dismissed, but at this point it should be giving everyone pause.
 
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Chad Ellis
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I don't think there's any reason to suspect some grand conspiracy.

Trump has pursued business in Russia; this isn't secret -- or, for that matter, even problematic.

In terms of style, Trump is a would-be strongman...and, as a result, he feels some kinship for Putin. Putin, likewise, sees Trump as someone he can work with, both because Trump is (by his own declaration) much more interested in narrowly-defined US interests than stopping Russian expansionism and because Trump likes hardball and isn't going to have a problem with Putin being "tough" on third parties, like local independent nations with large Russian populations.

Given that, we already have enough for Putin to have a strong preference for a Trump Presidency, which is enough to motivate the DNC hack.

Some people seem to be looking for something huge and sinister, but banal self-interest seems a simpler and sufficient explanation.
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Trey Chambers
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I don't think there's any reason to suspect some grand conspiracy.

Trump has pursued business in Russia; this isn't secret -- or, for that matter, even problematic.

In terms of style, Trump is a would-be strong...and, as a result, he feels some kinship for Putin. Putin, likewise, sees Trump as someone he can work with, both because Trump is (by his own declaration) much more interested in narrowly-defined US interests than stopping Russian expansionism and because Trump likes hardball and isn't going to have a problem with Putin being "tough" on third parties, like local independent nations with large Russian populations.

Given that, we already have enough for Putin to have a strong preference for a Trump Presidency, which is enough to motivate the DNC hack.

Some people seem to be looking for something huge and sinister, but banal self-interest seems a simpler and sufficient explanation.


Yea I'm not saying he's trying to sell the U.S. out to the Russians, but promising some mutual backscratching during a political election which also involves an illegal activity by a foreign country is basically treason in itself.
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So you want to talk about conflict of interest...

Does Anyone Actually Believe Cheryl Mills Was Just Helping the Clinton Foundation for Fun?

"At the same time that Cheryl Mills was working as chief of staff in the secretary of state’s office, she was also conducting interviews for the secretary of state’s foundation. That is a textbook example of a situation that, at the very least, looks like someone using her public resources for personal gain."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438957/cheryl-mills-cl...

Hillary Aide Cheryl Mills OK’d Oil Deal That Put $500K In Bill Clinton's Pocket

The Department of State estimates the number of emails between Hillary’s top State Department staff and Clinton Foundation officials includes more than 12,000 separate communications.

Most of the 12,000 e-mails are to be released by November 4, four days before the election.

"Bill further earned $15 million in a hedge fund deal with business partner Sheikh Mohammed bin-Rashid al-Marktoum, the UAE's authoritarian ruler. He collected an additional $5.6 million to serve as 'honorary chairman'..."

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/09/exclusive-hillary-aide-che...
 
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Been over this, Chris.

All you have are optics and propaganda.

...

And you're eating it up because you gave away any kind of political though long ago.

Edit: Seriously... how can you post that story and NOT think it's an obvious attempt to turn the election? If it were about "Truth" (as wikileaks cultists proclaim) they'd release them all now, but it's not happening. Whomever's calling the shots has a very specific plan for this.... and the fact that they're sitting on all those emails shows there's no real there there.

If there were anything truly criminal they'd release it now. The fact that they're plotting to release it days before the election show's pretty well that it's all theatre and imagery, with no substance.

~~

Although to be fair, that's been the GOP since at least 1980, probably since Nixon left.
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And seriously... speaking of Nixon, he did some terrible things, but he's likely rolling in the grave at these idiots in his party.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I don't think there's any reason to suspect some grand conspiracy.…

Yup.

Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity and just not giving a damn.
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Chris Binkowski
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darthhugo wrote:
Hard to fucking believe that in modern times, a person with direct ties to the Russian government (via ex-Ukrainian, Pro-Russia administration), who pocketed millions for his work for said government is actually leading the campaign of a US presidential candidate.

I'm all for the ideal of non-corruption in my government officials (fantasy), but at the very least I would prefer my politicians bribed by US interests rather than foreign governments.

How did this fucking happen?


You have seen the Clinton Foundation foreign donations list, right? 'Clinton Cash'? Her clothing?
 
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