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Subject: Welp, this is a thing... rss

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AJ Harris
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I'm genuinely intrigued at this concept, but feel it's already a challenge to merge schedules with around 3 other people for the other Legacy titles. I can't imagine the challenge this would be to organize the same group of 8-15 people over several consecutive plays. The idea definitely sounds fun, though...
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Sterling Wright
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From the New Game Round Up:

Quote:
In Ultimate Werewolf Legacy, players and the village itself have attributes that are retained between games, with events taking place in the first games having effects that ripple through remaining games. Make a bad decision early on, and it can haunt the village for years to come! Players can earn titles, which provides them with special abilities in future games, regardless of their role.

The full campaign is divided into chapters of about three games each, with each chapter designed to be played in a single night with the same group of players. Each chapter is standalone so that different players can play different chapters, but since early chapters affect successive ones, it's an even richer experience to play through more than one chapter. Even better, the chapters are designed so that you can switch moderators between games.

Ultimate Werewolf Legacy uses the basic gameplay found in Ultimate Werewolf and adds a number of twists and Legacy-style mechanisms to give the game a richer, more immersive experience than werewolf players will find any other way.


It sounds like they thought of the issue of getting a large group together regularly. You would probably want a core group to play through the entire campaign, but is seems having people jump in and jump out will not be a problem. They just miss part of the story. I'm intrigued and hope that there is an app to prevent someone from having to be the moderator.
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AJ Harris
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Yeah, I agree that it seems like they've taken into consideration that there might be other/different people, but also that they don't really WANT that to be the case and to try, if possible, to have the same group.

Also, by them pointing out that you can "switch moderators," it doesn't sound like an app will be usable. I'm sure they've considered that avenue extensively, though...but maybe there are too many permutations for an app to be efficiently designed?
 
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Sterling Wright
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You are probably right which may make me pass on this one just because I always end up being the moderator. The app is one of the reasons the One Night Ultimate games are my favorite Werewolf style game.
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AJ Harris
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Saw that there were some playtests/demoes of this at a recent con. Surprised there have been no thoughts from anyone involved...even super vague ones.
 
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Ted Alspach
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much0gust0 wrote:
Saw that there were some playtests/demoes of this at a recent con. Surprised there have been no thoughts from anyone involved...even super vague ones.


That is what happens with iron-clad NDA's that contain seven distinct levels of torture described in stomach-churning detail as consequences for disclosing any details, with there being no leeway for "thoughts" as you describe:

Ultimate Werewolf Legacy Non-Disclosure Agreement Section 14.c wrote:
Confirmation of participation in these playtest sessions, even in vague generalistic terms, is forbidden and will result in at least one of the consequences described in Appendix C: Consequences as a Result of NDA Violation by Playtester. Speculation or vague overviews of any concepts present in The Game, real or imagined, are prohibited. Playtester may neither confirm nor deny the existence of playtest sessions, even if those playtest sessions have been reported by Publisher or any other official source.
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Todd Fast
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I'm really triggered by this, Ted, so apologies if the following sounds harsh. Please consider it straight talk from a serious fan of Bezier and Rob. Feel free to disagree; nonetheless I'm compelled to chime in with my 2c.

First, I hope that NDA snippet is a joke. If so, joke's on me. If not, then here goes:

As a fan, I get the whole prestige angle and Rob's personal branding around legacy games. But I live and work in Silicon Valley, and have never seen anyone credible attempt such a ludicrous level of control with an NDA. The technology industry here has learned such attempts are rubbish and make you look like a douche to the very people you're asking to help you (for free, btw).

NDAs like this are unenforceable (reminder: game mechanics are not intellectual property) and are generally considered smoke that belies a fire underneath, namely a non-existent value proposition. If someone here asks you to sign an NDA like this, it's a sure bet that they don't actually have something of value, are naive, are deluded, are trying to unethically manipulate you, or all of the above. It's just not a pattern you want to emulate.

To my ears, this was obviously written in pseudo-legalese by a non-lawyer as a scare tactic rather than a fair contract based on mutual respect. IMHO it's not a great way to earn trust among your (for-free) playtesting partners nor the game community. Sadly, it negatively affects my opinion of the game creators.

What I don't understand is the mindset here. I think everyone would agree that information about the content of the game shouldn't be leaked so as not to ruin the game experience. But just putting the thing on BGG discloses the fact that there are (or should be) playtest sessions happening. What value is there in asking playtesters to be so opaque?

I don't know if this is what's behind such an NDA, but I thought as a community, we'd finally come to terms with the idea that no one is going to steal your game. Even one developed by Ted or Rob. Like, if you guys are doing something, it's going to be awesome because you're the ones doing it. If anyone could replicate that magic, then Ted and Rob are just hacks and should rightly be driven out of business. But they're not, so why act like it?

I mean, dude, as cool as a collaboration between Bezier and Rob is, it's just Werewolf--and it's just a game. Principles matter, and I think you'll be rewarded for standing up and explicitly rejecting the slide to small-mindedness as a game publisher. No one expects a publisher or designer to not act in their own self-interest, but that doesn't have to be at odds with everyone else. As an example, this is part of Stonemaier's brand, and whatever you might think about Jamey's games themselves, he's amassed an enormous amount of respect and goodwill that have paid enormous dividends.

Thanks for reading, and wishing you the best success with the game.

[Edit: typo]
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Ted Alspach
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Sorry, Todd. My attempt at tongue-in-cheek humor was clearly not perceived as such. I figured the "seven distinct levels of torture" would have clued people in on that...but the quote I typed up was, upon re-reading it, pretty darn scary-sounding.

So...joke's on you? blush

Sorry for the confusion - no one has signed an NDA for these play sessions.
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AJ Harris
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Joking aside, though, while you're here...how's the game going, haha?! Playtests going as expected?
 
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Ted Alspach
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much0gust0 wrote:
Joking aside, though, while you're here...how's the game going, haha?! Playtests going as expected?


I'm sure Rob and I will elaborate on this more in the future, but the game has substantially evolved since we started playtesting earlier this year, and has become incredibly compelling. Playtesters are indeed the true heroes here, as we are breaking new ground with this game in many ways, and their patience with us as mechanics, systems, and functionality have evolved is just short of legendary.

That said, the feedback has been incredibly positive—one group actually begged me to continue with them to the next game (or more) as we were being kicked out of the venue after playing three games into the wee hours of the night.

Thanks to Rob's experience with the Legacy system as it has been refined over the course of the now three published games (and others in progress), the published version of Ultimate Werewolf Legacy will be amazing.
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AJ Harris
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That is so excellent to hear! I actually just purchased One Night Ultimate Werewolf to get a feel for what kind of mechanics I can look forward to in this upcoming (non-One-Night) game. My church group is definitely excited to continue deceiving each other...whistle
 
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Todd Fast
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Thank. God. Whew! Totally joke on me. Well played, sir.

Now I feel totally obligated to buy a copy of Werewolf Legacy. Maybe at least I can archive and repurpose my blathering for a future rant.

Now I know from this and your quantum testing proposal that I should read all of your posts as if they were peppered liberally with winking emoticons and "j/k"s.
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Ted Alspach
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glax wrote:
Now I know from this and your quantum testing proposal that I should read all of your posts as if they were peppered liberally with winking emoticons and "j/k"s.


Or maybe i should have playtesters for things I post on BGG.
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Brent Lloyd
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I will brave the "seven distinct levels of torture".

I played in one of the early playtests early last year and overall enjoyed it. If you enjoy Werewolf and if the idea of a Legacy element appeals to you then I think getting this version will be easy to justify.

A bit of reference for folks who want to "qualify" the above statements: I play Werewolf a few times a year at various cons and conventions and am very familiar with the game.

Is it possible to plea bargain down to maybe just two distinct levels of torture for generalized "I liked it" support without any details?

Peace



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AJ Harris
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Thanks for that little bit of info!
 
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Doug Wacker
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Is there any chance that this might appear in some permutation (even testing) at Gen Con 50 this year? I could see four separate days, with each day being another chapter or chapters in a story?
 
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How does this even make sense, thematically? If the werewolves win in one game, how does the village suddenly have a bunch of non-werewolves for the next game? Did a bunch of people with death wishes move in? "Gee, everyone in this village was eaten by werewolves! That means there's a bunch of empty houses now! I could probably move in for really cheap! What a great deal for me and my family! I'm so smart!"
 
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Doug Wacker
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
How does this even make sense, thematically? If the werewolves win in one game, how does the village suddenly have a bunch of non-werewolves for the next game? Did a bunch of people with death wishes move in? "Gee, everyone in this village was eaten by werewolves! That means there's a bunch of empty houses now! I could probably move in for really cheap! What a great deal for me and my family! I'm so smart!"


LOL! I'm guessing that there are more and more werewolves as time goes on? And it gets harder and harder to eradicate them all? Perhaps new "villagers" are people that have arrived to deal with the werewolf outbreak? Dr. Leviticus Snipe, microbiologist studying the midichlorians of lycanthropy and so forth?
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BJ Swope
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We just wrapped up our 2nd annual Decepta Con here in Atlanta. A con primarily focused on social deception games, Ultimate Werewolf foremost amongst them.

3+ days and 150+ attendees playing Werewolf nearly 24 hours a day.

This looks incredible and I would love to have it for 3-D (Decepta Con III) on President's Day weekend 2018! We could easily play 6 rounds of the game during the Con.

What is the estimated release date for the game?
 
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Thunder wrote:
I will brave the "seven distinct levels of torture".

I played in one of the early playtests early last year and overall enjoyed it. If you enjoy Werewolf and if the idea of a Legacy element appeals to you then I think getting this version will be easy to justify.
A bit of reference for folks who want to "qualify" the above statements: I play Werewolf a few times a year at various cons and conventions and am very familiar with the game.
Is it possible to plea bargain down to maybe just two distinct levels of torture for generalized "I liked it" support without any details?
Peace

I was in an early play test group and never signed an NDA. Ted doesn't scare me. Bribes accepted.
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AJ Harris
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I WOULD at least like to know if there are any updates about this. Seems like Bezier Games has gone dark on it to me....
 
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much0gust0 wrote:
I WOULD at least like to know if there are any updates about this. Seems like Bezier Games has gone dark on it to me....


We're working hard to get it ready as soon as possible We don't have a release date yet, but we will make sure to announce any updates on all our social media channels when we have them!
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dwacker wrote:
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
How does this even make sense, thematically? If the werewolves win in one game, how does the village suddenly have a bunch of non-werewolves for the next game? Did a bunch of people with death wishes move in? "Gee, everyone in this village was eaten by werewolves! That means there's a bunch of empty houses now! I could probably move in for really cheap! What a great deal for me and my family! I'm so smart!"


LOL! I'm guessing that there are more and more werewolves as time goes on? And it gets harder and harder to eradicate them all? Perhaps new "villagers" are people that have arrived to deal with the werewolf outbreak? Dr. Leviticus Snipe, microbiologist studying the midichlorians of lycanthropy and so forth?


I imagine each playthrough is at a different village as the curse spreads across the land. As villages eradicate or fall to the curse, so to does the strength of the curse as it moves from Village to Village, taking more innocent souls with it.
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