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Subject: War of the Ring Collector's Edition - Thread # 2 rss

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Roberto Di Meglio
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Here I am again to discuss the components of the Collector's Edition. The previous thread shifted from miniature paintings to wishlists in general and much discussion is on the board, so I think it's proper to focus on the board - also because today I have an official announcement to do.

Something which people did not ask, but I thought of doing (maybe because I have long been a fan of Decipher's Lord of the Rings TCG, which introduced Tengwar cards as promos) is that when we did a Collector's Edition, I wanted more Elvish in it.

I liked the small touch of the Mordor Track done with Elvish numerals and Elvish has a special graphic quality which is very pleasing.

So, I can officially announce that DAVID SALO, the "man who speak Elvish", translator and creator of the Elvish dialogues in the Lord of the Rings movies, has delivered to us a full elvish translation (or transliteration in some cases) of all the names on the game board. And DANIEL REEVE, the master calligrapher and map-maker whose works prominently feature in the movies in the form of handouts and such (see his works at http://www.danielreeve.co.nz/), will do the calligraphy so that all the map will be hand-written in Elvish, with metallic gold ink...

Yes, that's quite crazy but true. Hopefully somebody else than me will like the idea

We will put small sub-letterings with the "normal" regional names for the few fans which do not know the game board regions by heart and can't read Elvish :-)

Last, regarding color changes to the map. We consider the map as a work of art by John Howe, so we want to be respectful of that art and we can not and will not flood it with green in Photoshop.
That said, I am going back to John with your suggestions and see if he can come up with a good solution for the problem. It's his art, and we don't want to add a beard to Mona Lisa...

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Chris Bailey
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Awesome!
 
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Kent Reuber
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As much as I like the idea of Elvish on the mapboard, please make sure that the non-Elvish region names are easy to read. The Collector's mapboard is larger, right? So having both text of a good size shouldn't be a problem.

Is it possible to make the region borders thicker? We had some problems telling which areas of the board were parts of the various regions.
 
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Collin
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Sweet!

More Elvish is a very cool idea.

cybernex wrote:

Last, regarding color changes to the map. We consider the map as a work of art by John Howe, so we want to be respectful of that art and we can not and will not flood it with green in Photoshop.
That said, I am going back to John with your suggestions and see if he can come up with a good solution for the problem. It's his art, and we don't want to add a beard to Mona Lisa...

This is certainly understandable, I agree that respecting his art is a necessity. It's cool that you're willing to bring it to his attention, though, it would be awesome if he's willing to accomodate the request.

Thanks for all your hard work on this, it's really cool that you guys want to take into account the opinions of the community. Looking forward to it's release. (I better start saving now)
 
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Steve Hope
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Wow...adventurous! I think I will like it, though I'm interested to see the implementation.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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I'm just going to reiterate my request (made in the other thread) for a Victory Point Track and markers.
 
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David desJardins
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I'm concerned the board will become even harder to read. The current board is already poor on legibility.

It might be a good thing if you can use the Elvish for appearance, and put the English names in smaller text but using a standard font. Even if the English text is considerably smaller, it would still be more readable if it weren't "handwritten".
 
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Greg Poulos
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sounds cool!

will the Elvish place names be propogated to the setup section in the rulebook and on the cards? (keeping the english sub-titles as well of course)
 
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Dave de Vil
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Is there any discussion of changing the borders? I realise this will complicate things by having two different versions of the map, but I'm a stickler for accuracy and I don't like to see errors such as Anorien placed in Rohan.

One suggestion (unlikely) for the figures would be to remove the flags from the piece molds and replace these with printed paper flags, such as those produced by Rofur:

http://www.rofur-flags.de/main3.htm

These can be very colourful, and elaborate flags are VERY difficult to paint, especially if the flag is modelled in a rippled pattern.
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Gordon Watson
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Some Elvish sounds good.
 
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Richard Rutten
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cybernex wrote:
So, I can officially announce that DAVID SALO, the "man who speak Elvish", translator and creator of the Elvish dialogues in the Lord of the Rings movies, has delivered to us a full elvish translation (or transliteration in some cases) of all the names on the game board. And DANIEL REEVE, the master calligrapher and map-maker whose works prominently feature in the movies in the form of handouts and such (see his works at http://www.danielreeve.co.nz/), will do the calligraphy so that all the map will be hand-written in Elvish, with metallic gold ink...

That sounds so bloody brilliant! Such a map would make this game a must have for me! And it would also give me a chance to brush up on my Elvish!

 
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Consider making the TEXT COLOR indicate the nation. Consider ways of making the borders more clear otherwise.

-TF
 
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Barry Kendall
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It's good of you to consider adding green to the board. While I see the "parchment" theme, it would be good to see more vibrancy in appropriate Free regions; this could be done without absolutely "flooding" the board with green.

I do have some reservations about "big Elvish letters and small English names." If both are to appear, I'd rather see Elvish in Elvish areas and English in the others. That might be a nice compromise and still lend the magical Elvish flavor to the deluxe game.
 
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Jens Hoppe
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cybernex wrote:
That said, I am going back to John with your suggestions and see if he can come up with a good solution for the problem. It's his art, and we don't want to add a beard to Mona Lisa...


Beards can be nice...

Anyway, thanks for not declining the idea right away - I hope John can see the sense in a little less deserty map.
 
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Geoff Speare
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My creative side says "Elvish, in gold ink! Cool!!!" (Ithildin ink would be better, but I imagine that might raise production costs a bit. )

My practical side says "Hm, I hope it doesn't make the board unreadable". I love the game, but I don't play often enough to remember the more obscure locations on the board.

 
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Sean McCarthy
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I know this would not be a problem for me, but trying to teach new people the game on the "nice" board sounds like a pain if the region names aren't in English.
 
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Michael Marvosh
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Even though I'm sure I will never play this game with a real live person, I promise I will buy it.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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MrSkeletor wrote:
Yes, this sure would LOOK cool - but being able to play on it is much more important!


Not if you and your primary opponent have memorized the map of Middle Earth.

Now if only they would completely get rid of the pesky English letters... sigh...

But seriously, man, this is awesome
 
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Joe Casadonte
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I'm concerned that the map will become very hard to read. I like the idea of more Elvish, but too much of a good thing.....
 
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Lance Moody
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Also wanted to suggest restraint on the elvish map names---IMHO these should be subordinate (if used at all) to the English names.


Many thanks and with great anticipation,

Lance
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Paul Butler
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I LOVE the elvish idea. Provided that you do, in fact, print a smaller, english version of the text beneath.
I also applaud your stance on recolouring the map. In all the discussions on the other thread regarding the map, I don't recall anyone mentioning that the thing is a JOHN HOWE piece; and recolouring it without his input sounded terrible to me.
 
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Jim Cote
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MrSkeletor wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks this is a terrible idea?
Yes, this sure would LOOK cool - but being able to play on it is much more important!
This just seems like a silly gimmick to me which will make an already troublesome board have even more problems.


Hey. Some Euro-gamer stole MrSkeletor's account! laugh Seriously, it would be even more playable and functional if it looked like this:

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Roberto Di Meglio
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Well, John Howe replied very promptly to my question, and we have good news.

First, he's not contrary to the idea of modifying the existing board. Second, if this is compatible with schedule, he could even paint a completely new board... Now, I can't really promise this second option will happen (John's schedule has a tendency to be very dense, and we don't want to postpone the project to 2009), but the fact that we have his approval on intervening the map opens the way to accomodating some more of the people's requests.

The point on "secondary" understandable lettering is taken. We definitely want the board to be usable, and hopefully the larger size will make everybody happy. We also plan to improve the use of the printed area, by tweaking the borders, reducing some of the areas to the South and East, and we are experimenting with using a reasonable level of spherical distortion to increase the size of the regions in the central portion of the map, which of course are used a lot!

Again, thanks to everybody for voicing their opinions here, positive and negative. It's clear that we will not be able to make EVERYBODY happy but at least we can make the best attempt we can, with the knowledge of what people want!
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Jim Patching
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I'm a little dubious about the whole board being covered in Elvish too. I'm not familiar with the Elvish names of any of the Middle Earth locations and I've got the feeling it'll feel like I'm playing on a foreign language board!
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Eric Flood
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MrSkeletor wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks this is a terrible idea?
Yes, this sure would LOOK cool - but being able to play on it is much more important!
This just seems like a silly gimmick to me which will make an already troublesome board have even more problems.


C'mon...you are reading this article, giving it about 5 minute's thought, and posting about how this will make the game "unplayable."

Do you REALLY think that they won't give a thought to how "playable" the board is? That they won't, I don't know, "practice" a few games on it, to make sure that new players can still find everything?

From everything I can tell, they are putting in the absolute most care they can into the design, and these issues will be priority #1 on their list of things to watch for. Besides, did you never spend 5 stupid minutes trying to locate Erid Luin only to discover that deck of cards you kept playing with while searching was right next to it? Or Gogoroth, which your eye just keeps passing by because it looks like it's entirely for the Felloship endgame?

I will not say a word if the edition comes out as "unplayable" in the end, but for now, I say let's trust the people who are spending large amounts of time and brainpower on these issues.

Sorry to everyone else for fanning those flames...
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