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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another "Spot" Question: Road to Legend rss

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John

Boston
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Hey guys,

I've looked through all the posts on the "Spot" action that monsters can take but I'm still confused about something specific. If the action is to "Spot the closest hero," but moving won't get the monster to somewhere that is within line of sight at all, do they totally skip that action, or do they take two movement actions to get within line of sight? Basically, do monsters move twice to spot if they need to, or do they just do nothing that round? Thanks!
 
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Craig S.
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They would get as close as they could to the required space with the first action, and then cycle through the actions and spot again.
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Fabes McKinnon
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As a follow up to this question, what do the monsters do if no space has LOS to the heroes, and they cannot do any of the other actions?

I am in a situation where the Demon Lords have 3 possible actions:
1) Spot
2) Attack
3) If a hero is within 3 spaces....

The heroes are around a corner and fighting Trolls. The Trolls completely block any LOS to the heroes from any space the Demon Lords can get to. No hero is within 3 spaces of a Demon Lord

Do the Demon Lords just stand there and do nothing during their activation until the Trolls are killed?
 
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Craig S.
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Can they get past the trolls? If so, they would do that.
 
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Fabes McKinnon
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Hi Craig

Thanks for the quick response.

I think the best way is to show the situation with a photo. I really hope this comes across clearly



As you can see, there is a pit for the Demon Lords (Speed 3) to get past as well, so they cannot get past the Trolls. I'm not sure about this one, it really does seem the Demon Lords do nothing

And yes, that is a dead hero modestwhistle
 
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Paul
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The pit is not as issue- the demon lords can walk right through it and not take damage because of their size.

But I still don't think they can spot. They would stay put.
 
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Martin Grisman
England
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zaltyre wrote:
The pit is not as issue- the demon lords can walk right through it and not take damage because of their size.

But I still don't think they can spot. They would stay put.



Well...
I disagree, based on how I've interpreted the rules. The Road to Legend rules state:

Road to Legend Rules wrote:

SPOT
When spotting, a figure is trying to get to a good vantage in relation to the target. It performs a move action and moves toward the closest space that is within 3 spaces and line of sight of the target. It stops when it arrives in that space or when it runs out of movement points.
If a monster doesn’t have enough movement points to get to the space within 3 spaces and line of sight, it stops in a space that is as close as possible to the target but still within line of sight (if possible). This facilitates attack actions further down the monster’s action list.


I could be wrong, but I interpret the fact that 'if possible' is in brackets to mean the monster will move as close to the heroes as possible, and getting LOS is a secondary priority to be achieved if possible.
I use this interpretation to prevent ranged monsters getting stuck at their spawn point and not moving for the rest of the quest, if the heroes don't need to close the gap themselves.

So... I would say the first Demon Lord would take up position to the left of the minion Troll, and the second would stand to its right.
(FWIW, as long as the heroes couldn't take advantage of the close formation, that's what I'd do as an Overlord too )
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Fabes McKinnon
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zaltyre wrote:
The pit is not as issue- the demon lords can walk right through it and not take damage because of their size.

But I still don't think they can spot. They would stay put.

This is from page 16 of the rules

Descent: Journeys in the Dark Rules wrote:
When large monsters enter a space containing terrain, they are affected just like any single-spaced figure. When large monsters end their movement and their bases are placed on terrain that they did not move through, refer to the individual terrain rules for what effects, if any, apply to the large monster.

So unless I am interpreting it wrong, during a standard movement, the minion Demon Lord would first spend its 3 Movement Points and land on the bridge, then expand over the pit without penalty. It would then take its second movement. Have I overlooked something somewhere?

Prinny_wizzard wrote:


Well...
I disagree, based on how I've interpreted the rules. The Road to Legend rules state:

Road to Legend Rules wrote:

SPOT
When spotting, a figure is trying to get to a good vantage in relation to the target. It performs a move action and moves toward the closest space that is within 3 spaces and line of sight of the target. It stops when it arrives in that space or when it runs out of movement points.
If a monster doesn’t have enough movement points to get to the space within 3 spaces and line of sight, it stops in a space that is as close as possible to the target but still within line of sight (if possible). This facilitates attack actions further down the monster’s action list.


I could be wrong, but I interpret the fact that 'if possible' is in brackets to mean the monster will move as close to the heroes as possible, and getting LOS is a secondary priority to be achieved if possible.
I use this interpretation to prevent ranged monsters getting stuck at their spawn point and not moving for the rest of the quest, if the heroes don't need to close the gap themselves.

So... I would say the first Demon Lord would take up position to the left of the minion Troll, and the second would stand to its right.
(FWIW, as long as the heroes couldn't take advantage of the close formation, that's what I'd do as an Overlord too )

The rule here seems ambiguous because I interpret it a little different. My interpretation is: find the space which is within 3 spaces and LOS of the target. Move towards that space. If the figure does not have enough movement to get there, it stops in some other space which still has LOS to the target, if such a space exists during that movement.
Basically, the figure needs to move towards some specific space which is within 3 and LOS of the target. Just moving closer the target as you described sounds to me more like an Engage action.
Again, I have possibly overlooked something somewhere, but I really believe the Demon Lords just stand there when interpreting the rules. I think an "Engage" action should have been placed in the list before the "If a hero is within 3 spaces...." action

If I was Overlord however, I agree I would play it the way you stated as well!
 
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Craig S.
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MrJorgan wrote:
If I was Overlord however, I agree I would play it the way you stated as well!


This is the important bit. The app does the best it can, but it can't perfectly simulate an intelligent human overlord. When the app would make things behave idiotically, ignore it and do what you think a person would do.
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Fabes McKinnon
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csouth154 wrote:
MrJorgan wrote:
If I was Overlord however, I agree I would play it the way you stated as well!


This is the important bit. The app does the best it can, but it can't perfectly simulate an intelligent human overlord. When the app would make things behave idiotically, ignore it and do what you think a person would do.

I agree. If there were rules for every situation (which is probably not possible in itself), they would just be too complex.
Upon saying this, I now have a House Rule which adds a very simple line to the Spot rule: If no space on the map exists which satisfies the Spot conditions, Engage a space which satisfies the conditions as if no monsters were on the map"

In my example, the minion Demon Lord would engage the space to the rear left of the minion Troll. If the minion Troll was defeated (or, the master Troll was defeated and the minion Troll takes it place), the Demon Lord would automatically be within 3 and LOS of the closest hero
 
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Paul
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Regarding my earlier post, you're right- I was thinking of normal Descent rules, not RtL specific rules. Given the passages quoted about how the spot action is performed, the demon lords would get as close as they could, without taking a path that caused pit damage.
 
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Timlagor
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Even if you think none of the squares on their side of the heroes are valid (being full of troll) then the Demon Lords would just pick a square on the far side of the heroes and get as close as possible to that.

Even if the heroes had their backs to a wall (or to Golems) I would still move the Demon Lords forward.
 
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thiago k
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Just a remember from core rules

Pit terrain:

Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all
spaces they occupy are pit spaces.

 
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Silidus
Canada
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MrJorgan wrote:

Upon saying this, I now have a House Rule which adds a very simple line to the Spot rule: If no space on the map exists which satisfies the Spot conditions, Engage a space which satisfies the conditions as if no monsters were on the map"

In my example, the minion Demon Lord would engage the space to the rear left of the minion Troll. If the minion Troll was defeated (or, the master Troll was defeated and the minion Troll takes it place), the Demon Lord would automatically be within 3 and LOS of the closest hero


You do not even need the house rule in most cases. The target of spot is the closest space which has line of sight to the target hero, and is within 3 spaces of the hero. That space may be behind the heroes.

So in this case, the target space is behind the heroes and trolls. The Demon Lords will then attempt to move as close as they can to that space (on their first action), and are blocked by the heroes and trolls.

They then move to their second action, check if there is anyone to attack (which there isnt), check if there are heroes within 3 spaces, then if they still have their action, they would perform their second move to attempt to get closer to the target space. If no move can be done, they end their turn.
 
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Carsten Summer
Germany
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zaltyre wrote:
The pit is not an issue

i don't like it, but RTL RAW (pt 9) it is
Quote:
Monsters always avoid pit space

this does not exclude large monsters


sorry, stupid post. appendix v (pt 14) gives a clarification

Quote:
A large monster will move into and through a pit space if it does not end its movement so that all of the spaces it occupies are pit spaces, and so it not affected by the pit spaces.
 
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