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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Communication Breakdown" and Move X spaces abilities. rss

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Riccardo Simoni
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I am about to play Leia's side mission "Communication Breakdown" and I am wondering if this is a case where mission rules override ability/card rules or not.

The mission setup explains that
Spoiler (click to reveal)
mission tokens are snow piles. To enter a snow pile a figure must spend 4 movement points (or one less point for each surge they get after testing strength)


Can Davith Elso use 'Force Speed' and simply move over them (moving 2 spaces) (and Gaarkhan use 'Charge') or the mission rules prevent these types of ability from working?

thanks,
Riccardo

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Pasi Ojala
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See enter.

Even with move X spaces the figure enters each space it moves through. The only way to enter the space in the mission rule is to spend movement points, so Force Speed and Charge cannot be used neither to enter the spaces nor move through them.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Sorry Pasi, I disagree.

The Move X Spaces rule is:
RRG-Movement wrote:
If an ability moves a figure a listed number
of spaces, this movement ignores movement point costs.


The snow pile entry is a cost, so it would be ignored while moving with such abilities.

If you cannot move through the snow piles, you would not be able to enter difficult terrain while moving by spaces either, as it also uses entry as the trigger.
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Pasi Ojala
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The mission rule is explicitly saying that entering the space requires 4 movement points. Well, yes, it can be interpreted as extra movement point cost to enter the space.

(It seems I was reading it as after entering the space spend 4 movement points, which can be reduced by performing...)
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Riccardo Simoni
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thanks Guys!

I was hoping for you to step in and clarify!



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Jorgen Peddersen
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a1bert wrote:
The mission rule is explicitly saying that entering the space requires 4 movement points. Well, yes, it can be interpreted as extra movement point cost to enter the space.

It isn't actually extra. If you happened to fail the strength test, it would indeed cost 4 movement points, not 5. My point is that movement by spaces doesn't ignore only 'additional' movement point costs, it ignores all movement point costs.
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Pasi Ojala
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You're right. The cost can be reduced by the attribute test specified in the mission rule, and because it is a cost for entering a space, can be ignored when using Move X Spaces.
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Stephen Cooper
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a1bert wrote:
See enter.

Even with move X spaces the figure enters each space it moves through. The only way to enter the space in the mission rule is to spend movement points, so Force Speed and Charge cannot be used neither to enter the spaces nor move through them.


Why did you strike through half your post?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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krzykoopa wrote:
Why did you strike through half your post?

Because I was wrong. It does happen sometimes. whistle
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Teth Adam
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We played this mission about a month ago. Jyn just jumped through the snow with a place action, as did Loku, Verena... I don't think it hindered the Rebels at all. I think Leia may have spent points to enter - but that was about it.
 
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Craig S.
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necksnappingadam wrote:
We played this mission about a month ago. Jyn just jumped through the snow with a place action, as did Loku, Verena... I don't think it hindered the Rebels at all. I think Leia may have spent points to enter - but that was about it.


There is no such thing as a place action...
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Probably refers to Opportunist / Quick As a Whip of Jyn, bottom ability of Combat Momentum / K'tara Maneuver for Verena. Loku doesn't have any Move X spaces abilities though.
 
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Teth Adam
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a1bert wrote:
Probably refers to Opportunist / Quick As a Whip of Jyn, bottom ability of Combat Momentum / K'tara Maneuver for Verena. Loku doesn't have any Move X spaces abilities though.


Grappling Hook.
 
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Stephan Wimmer
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necksnappingadam wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Probably refers to Opportunist / Quick As a Whip of Jyn, bottom ability of Combat Momentum / K'tara Maneuver for Verena. Loku doesn't have any Move X spaces abilities though.


Grappling Hook.


Which is a supply deck draw and not a skill loku can get in preparation for the mission. So the rebels were lucky to be able to avoid the snow, not fully ignoring it via setting up game mechanics up in their favor.
 
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Riccardo Simoni
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It ended up as a super easy win for the rebels... yeah.

It started extremely well with a maxi combo which basically cleared the board from imperial troopers. After a first devastating attack of Davith who took care of the droid on the top, Leia attacked an elite trooper who got finished off by Verena who can then jumped to the next one using her ability. Loku from the distance killed the rest and Gideon commanded 2 heroes to advance further for the next round.
Second round same story and by the start of the third round Davith and Leia had already jumped the snow piles with the rest of team catching up early on the next round giving Leia the chance to be surrounded by healthy heroes.
There was no real hope for the empire this time.
 
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Jack Liu
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That seems a bit uncharacteristic of an interaction between the snowpile and moving spaces. It negates a key element of that scenario, I hope there is an errata to address this as the mission seems far too easy for rebels (even without it)


I have a slightly different question. If Gideon commands someone to move through a snowpile, do they get to do the str test to reduce cost?

Also as far as I understand it, you can't pool the mp command gives you so if you say.. gained 4 mp and had to move 2 spaces up to a snowpile but didn't have enough to move into it, the remaining mp is forfeited, even if you planned to get commanded again from masterstroke. Basically both commands are separate instances
 
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Pasi Ojala
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frotes wrote:
If Gideon commands someone to move through a snowpile, do they get to do the str test to reduce cost?

Once per activation abilities are once per activation whether they happen during the figure's own activation or during some other figure's activation. (Ruling should be found in the official answers thread. Here: Diala's Precise Strike out of her activation - and any "once per activation ability")

So, I would say the figure Commanded by Gideon can once during Gideon's activation test
to reduce the movement point cost for himself for the duration of that activation.

And with Masterstroke Gideon could allow that to two different figures.
frotes wrote:
Also as far as I understand it, you can't pool the mp command gives you so if you say.. gained 4 mp and had to move 2 spaces up to a snowpile but didn't have enough to move into it, the remaining mp is forfeited, even if you planned to get commanded again from masterstroke. Basically both commands are separate instances

Yes, movement points received out of your activation must be used as an interrupt (before Gideon can continue his activation) or they are lost. The first Command and the second Command from Masterstroke are separate.
 
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Jack Liu
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a1bert wrote:


So, I would say the figure Commanded by Gideon can once during Gideon's activation test
to reduce the movement point cost for himself for the duration of that activation.

And with Masterstroke Gideon could allow that to two different figures.


Gideon's Str? Not the figure that is moving through?

Seems odds as that would say.. let an ally unit (not elite) get a str roll in.

Oh something else just came to mind. I assume that Leia is allowed to test for STR and receive an auto 1 success if she moves through snowpile on her turn.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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frotes wrote:
Gideon's Str?

The figure who wants to reduce the movement point cost performs the strength test. The test only reduces the movement point cost for the figure performing the test.

If Gideon will also be moving through, he can do the test during his activation as well.

(Elite allies receive 1 success automatically and regular allies automatically fail.)
 
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Jack Liu
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a1bert wrote:
frotes wrote:
Gideon's Str?

The figure who wants to reduce the movement point cost performs the strength test. The test only reduces the movement point cost for the figure performing the test.

If Gideon will also be moving through, he can do the test during his activation as well.

(Elite allies receive 1 success automatically and regular allies automatically fail.)


Ok yea, I agree.
 
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Joe
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I have to strongly oppose that conclusion. Your link has an answer from Paul saying "Your option c) is correct. A “once per activation” ability can be used once during each activation, should the situation to use it arise." From that answer, Diala's ability can be used once during Gideon's activation. Not each time Gideon Commands someone.

In this case, that would mean that if Gideon commanded a figure to move, it could test strength for a reduction, but neither Gideon nor any other figure can try during Gideon's activation. If Gideon used Masterstroke to have a figure move twice, the figure would still have the reduced movement cost of getting through the pile, but would still only get to use one command's worth of movement points at a time.

If Gideon's command gave other figures actual activations, heroes could refresh abilities, use strain for movement, etc.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I agree with Joe here, but one firm thing is that we need the wording to be sure of that. If the wording used the word 'each' or referred to an ability that allowed 'you' to do something, then each figure would get one in the same activation as per Pasi's description.

However, the actual text is:

"Once per activation, a Rebel figure can test..."

This does indicate that only one Rebel figure per activation can perform the test.
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Pasi Ojala
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Clipper wrote:
I agree with Joe here, but one firm thing is that we need the wording to be sure of that. If the wording used the word 'each' or referred to an ability that allowed 'you' to do something, then each figure would get one in the same activation as per Pasi's description.

However, the actual text is:

"Once per activation, a Rebel figure can test..."

This does indicate that only one Rebel figure per activation can perform the test.

But it can be the figure Gideon Commands?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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a1bert wrote:
But it can be the figure Gideon Commands?

Sure. But once that Rebel figure performs the test, nobody else can until the end of Gideon's activation.
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Pasi Ojala
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Stl0369 wrote:
If Gideon's command gave other figures actual activations, heroes could refresh abilities, use strain for movement, etc.

No, that is not what once per activation requires, and that is not what me or the ruling is saying at all. Gideon's command lets the figure perform an attack or a move. It is still Gideon's activation.

What is said, that once per activation just does not require that the activation is the figure's own activation.


I still see the mission rule is an ability for each figure, not an ability for each activation, but I can live with the consensus of the opposite.
 
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