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Subject: The Impending Breakup of the Democratic Party rss

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Psyche.

In seriousness, I'm sick of journalists every election cycle claiming one party is fracturing because of differences. This year there are a ton of articles about the Republicans splitting up, similar to 2008. Yes, the GOP is a coalition of like 4 different ideological groups, similar to the Democrats having a coalition of disparate groups. After 2016 the Drunken Uncle Trump Mob will have temporarily embarrassed the GOP but then things will quickly get back to business as usual, with the Republicans winning the 2018 races. Democrats will be "uninspired" to vote, not use emotional attack ads, or simply forget that 2018 is a voting year.

If anything, the Republican Party is stronger than ever. They have the Senate, House, majority of governorships and state legislatures, where a lot of policy is made. They have the biggest majority in the history of the party.* These advantages are a big deal. Like, policy affecting women's reproductive rights, public education, and social safety nets. That's all changed in the last ten years and it's gone the way the right wing wants it to. Example: Democrats get to claim the ACA helps the poorest Americans get health care, but then Republican governors can just block those Medicaid programs in their states. So who holds the real power?

They're just better organized and disciplined, and have been for a while. Republicans fall in line, not in love. Plus they don't need the Presidency, they can hold the House safely with gerrymandered districts and then just block everything, since there's no need to compromise in today's bitter climate with both voters and politicians retreating to their own safe media bubbles. The political climate also means the Senate won't get rid of the filibuster, so it only takes 41 seats to stop legislation or approving court appointees. As covered in the book The Politics of Fear (Gonzales & Delgado, 2006), the Republicans have a dedicated network of think tanks, legislative-drafting organizations, and talk radio to back them and their voters up. Also, notice Ryan and McConnell and the GOP leadership's insipid falling-in-line behind a vulgar Democrat-turned-Nativist narcissist. If Sanders had won the Democrats would have squabbled like crazy, not wanting to vote for a "democratic socialist" and warning that he was too weak on foreign intervention, with more defections. And more traditional Democratic voters would have stayed home or split tickets.

And what have the Democrats offered for president? Basically someone who is in favor of the status quo, Wall Street, and most foreign intervention, as well as mistrusted (not saying that's deserved or not); but will win because she's not Drunken-Uncle Crazy. But if the Republicans had smartly nominated Kasich (aka nice dude who agrees with all the same right-wing policy) they could have won. And still implemented all the same policies as Cruz or Walker or Romney.

A bit of a rant... But I envy the Republicans, I wish progressives or leftists were as organized. I wish we had the Spartan Army that kicks ass, not the Ewoks. Instead we have whiny millennial babies who are super purist but won't fucking SHOW UP TO VOTE or campaign, combined with the Wall Street Wing of the party, and tons of compromise when we get into power. While our opponents don't compromise. We have demographics on our side, but the biggest voting bloc doesn't necessarily win. The Rules Lawyers do. And they are winning.

*http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/11/11/the_oth...
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Junior McSpiffy
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
While our opponents don't compromise.


True, we don't compromise. But we also don't win on what we don't compromise about.
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Mike Stiles
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GameCrossing wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
While our opponents don't compromise.


True, we don't compromise. But we also don't win on what we don't compromise about.


You're not my enemy junior <3
 
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Ed Holzman
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

The repubs have hindered him in no way. There is no organization. Cruz took a baby step in that direction and was brutalized by the party, because he attempted to do something they promised to do.

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Mac Mcleod
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Republican control of the senate (and to some extent the house) is due in large part to the structure of our government. There are many low population conservative states. They are guaranteed at least 2 senators and 1 representative.

There is one high population conservative states and two high population liberal states whose combined population is closing on 3x that of the conservative state.

Our larger liberal population is under represented as a result.

If we were to split california into 8 smaller states, new york into 6 smaller states and Texas into 5 or six smaller states, the senate and house would be more representative of the actual population.

Demographics continue to shift however. And not in a good way for republicans. Republican voters are dying much faster.



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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

Money for combatting Zika
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

Money for combatting Zika


Wait until congress is in session.
 
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J
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It already was and failed to pass it. You asked for an example and I gave one.
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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jmilum wrote:
It already was and failed to pass it. You asked for an example and I gave one.


They had what? A week or two to pass it before the summer recess? A bit more?

He'll get it.

Hell, he's funding it on his own.

Great example though.

This horrible, obstructionist Congress hasn't obstructed anything significant.
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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
They had what? A week or two to pass it before the summer recess? A bit more?

5 months should have been enough.
 
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David Dearlove
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A supreme court justice.
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Shawn Fox
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Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

Conversion of all Americans to Islam?
 
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Shawn Fox
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The only thing that has united the Democratic party this year is that everyone agrees Trump is fucking insane. Other than that, the fact that the Democrats have picked a moderate Republican as their presidential candidate certainly has a lot of Democrats pretty upset with their party these days.
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Christopher Yaure
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Revisions and improvements to Obamacare

Rationalization of immigration laws

Confirmation of appointments other than the Supreme Court

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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?
I'm not so sure it was something he actually wanted, but it was something he offered on the campaign trail.. closing Gitmo. Congress said no.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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In addition, I don't have time to parse it, but I am sure the record number of filibusters carried out by GOP obstructionists had to include some bills that Obama wanted.
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J.D. Hall
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sfox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

Conversion of all Americans to Islam?

Renaming the country the United States of Kenya?
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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GameCrossing wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
While our opponents don't compromise.


True, we don't compromise. But we also don't win on what we don't compromise about.

Hmmm...could you explain more?
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It already was and failed to pass it. You asked for an example and I gave one.


They had what? A week or two to pass it before the summer recess? A bit more?

He'll get it.

Hell, he's funding it on his own.

Great example though.

This horrible, obstructionist Congress hasn't obstructed anything significant.


But it isn't for a lack of trying. It just proves that obstructionism is failing... and failing miserably. Stop confusing tactics used with the effectiveness of them. Just because someone in Puerto Rico always chooses the Captain phase doesn't mean they didn't actually play Puerto Rico. It just means they sucked ass at it.
 
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J.D. Hall
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I personally hope both parties disintegrate and we either get new political parties or finally Washington's warning about political parties.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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actuaryesquire wrote:
Revisions and improvements to Obamacare

Rationalization of immigration laws

Confirmation of appointments other than the Supreme Court


These. Plus a more ambitious version of the ACA at first.

Legislation that takes steps towards gun control.

Minimum wage.

Addressing student loan debt.

Legislation that might address the Citizens United decision.

Also, closing Guantanamo was DOA.

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Jeff Staff
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
Psyche.

In seriousness, I'm sick of journalists every election cycle claiming one party is fracturing because of differences. This year there are a ton of articles about the Republicans splitting up, similar to 2008. Yes, the GOP is a coalition of like 4 different ideological groups, similar to the Democrats having a coalition of disparate groups. After 2016 the Drunken Uncle Trump Mob will have temporarily embarrassed the GOP but then things will quickly get back to business as usual, with the Republicans winning the 2018 races. Democrats will be "uninspired" to vote, not use emotional attack ads, or simply forget that 2018 is a voting year.

If anything, the Republican Party is stronger than ever. They have the Senate, House, majority of governorships and state legislatures, where a lot of policy is made. They have the biggest majority in the history of the party.* These advantages are a big deal. Like, policy affecting women's reproductive rights, public education, and social safety nets. That's all changed in the last ten years and it's gone the way the right wing wants it to. Example: Democrats get to claim the ACA helps the poorest Americans get health care, but then Republican governors can just block those Medicaid programs in their states. So who holds the real power?

They're just better organized and disciplined, and have been for a while. Republicans fall in line, not in love. Plus they don't need the Presidency, they can hold the House safely with gerrymandered districts and then just block everything, since there's no need to compromise in today's bitter climate with both voters and politicians retreating to their own safe media bubbles. The political climate also means the Senate won't get rid of the filibuster, so it only takes 41 seats to stop legislation or approving court appointees. As covered in the book The Politics of Fear (Gonzales & Delgado, 2006), the Republicans have a dedicated network of think tanks, legislative-drafting organizations, and talk radio to back them and their voters up. Also, notice Ryan and McConnell and the GOP leadership's insipid falling-in-line behind a vulgar Democrat-turned-Nativist narcissist. If Sanders had won the Democrats would have squabbled like crazy, not wanting to vote for a "democratic socialist" and warning that he was too weak on foreign intervention, with more defections. And more traditional Democratic voters would have stayed home or split tickets.

And what have the Democrats offered for president? Basically someone who is in favor of the status quo, Wall Street, and most foreign intervention, as well as mistrusted (not saying that's deserved or not); but will win because she's not Drunken-Uncle Crazy. But if the Republicans had smartly nominated Kasich (aka nice dude who agrees with all the same right-wing policy) they could have won. And still implemented all the same policies as Cruz or Walker or Romney.

A bit of a rant... But I envy the Republicans, I wish progressives or leftists were as organized. I wish we had the Spartan Army that kicks ass, not the Ewoks. Instead we have whiny millennial babies who are super purist but won't fucking SHOW UP TO VOTE or campaign, combined with the Wall Street Wing of the party, and tons of compromise when we get into power. While our opponents don't compromise. We have demographics on our side, but the biggest voting bloc doesn't necessarily win. The Rules Lawyers do. And they are winning.

*http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/11/11/the_oth...

The left has Media domination. It's very powerful to sway the minds of the mouth breathers. They seem to also combine forces better, imo but do so in a angry mob sort of way. The right has no problem destroying each other to prove they are "better republicans" or "better conservatives" when they would win more if they would budge a little.
 
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Moshe Callen
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Koldfoot wrote:
Don't compromise: I ask again: aside from a few appointments, what has Obama wanted that he hasn't got?

His pick for Israeli PM, a peaceful Iran, a suicidal pseudo-peace deal in which Israelis let ISIS walk into Y"ESHA.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Diabolik771 wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Psyche.

In seriousness, I'm sick of journalists every election cycle claiming one party is fracturing because of differences. This year there are a ton of articles about the Republicans splitting up, similar to 2008. Yes, the GOP is a coalition of like 4 different ideological groups, similar to the Democrats having a coalition of disparate groups. After 2016 the Drunken Uncle Trump Mob will have temporarily embarrassed the GOP but then things will quickly get back to business as usual, with the Republicans winning the 2018 races. Democrats will be "uninspired" to vote, not use emotional attack ads, or simply forget that 2018 is a voting year.

If anything, the Republican Party is stronger than ever. They have the Senate, House, majority of governorships and state legislatures, where a lot of policy is made. They have the biggest majority in the history of the party.* These advantages are a big deal. Like, policy affecting women's reproductive rights, public education, and social safety nets. That's all changed in the last ten years and it's gone the way the right wing wants it to. Example: Democrats get to claim the ACA helps the poorest Americans get health care, but then Republican governors can just block those Medicaid programs in their states. So who holds the real power?

They're just better organized and disciplined, and have been for a while. Republicans fall in line, not in love. Plus they don't need the Presidency, they can hold the House safely with gerrymandered districts and then just block everything, since there's no need to compromise in today's bitter climate with both voters and politicians retreating to their own safe media bubbles. The political climate also means the Senate won't get rid of the filibuster, so it only takes 41 seats to stop legislation or approving court appointees. As covered in the book The Politics of Fear (Gonzales & Delgado, 2006), the Republicans have a dedicated network of think tanks, legislative-drafting organizations, and talk radio to back them and their voters up. Also, notice Ryan and McConnell and the GOP leadership's insipid falling-in-line behind a vulgar Democrat-turned-Nativist narcissist. If Sanders had won the Democrats would have squabbled like crazy, not wanting to vote for a "democratic socialist" and warning that he was too weak on foreign intervention, with more defections. And more traditional Democratic voters would have stayed home or split tickets.

And what have the Democrats offered for president? Basically someone who is in favor of the status quo, Wall Street, and most foreign intervention, as well as mistrusted (not saying that's deserved or not); but will win because she's not Drunken-Uncle Crazy. But if the Republicans had smartly nominated Kasich (aka nice dude who agrees with all the same right-wing policy) they could have won. And still implemented all the same policies as Cruz or Walker or Romney.

A bit of a rant... But I envy the Republicans, I wish progressives or leftists were as organized. I wish we had the Spartan Army that kicks ass, not the Ewoks. Instead we have whiny millennial babies who are super purist but won't fucking SHOW UP TO VOTE or campaign, combined with the Wall Street Wing of the party, and tons of compromise when we get into power. While our opponents don't compromise. We have demographics on our side, but the biggest voting bloc doesn't necessarily win. The Rules Lawyers do. And they are winning.

*http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/11/11/the_oth...

The left has Media domination. It's very powerful to sway the minds of the mouth breathers. They seem to also combine forces better, imo but do so in a angry mob sort of way. The right has no problem destroying each other to prove they are "better republicans" or "better conservatives" when they would win more if they would budge a little.


Right owns talk radio and fox and lots of papers etc.
Left bias in cultural entertainment.
Right wing has a huge population of abgry ill educated voters who vote purely on emotion. The crazy part is how the poor and middle income republicansrepublicans vote against their own self interest so often.
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